Trick Attack

[Manofpassion]

Honestly, I think saying the devs are simplifying the game is giving them too much credit. Pressing kaiten before midare is not hard, as many kaiten detractors point out. Trick detractors also say keeping trick on cooldown isn't difficult, which is also true. You can't simplify these things any further. So what are the reasons for these changes? They're not nerfs, since the devs are gonna compensate us accordingly. It could be a buff, but doing so at the expense of ninja's core skills seems like a strange choice. It seems like they are trying to fix what isn't broken. As far as I am aware, the game is alright balance wise right now. The fact that the devs spent like 15 minutes showing us cool new minions instead of taking 3 minutes to explain their logic is something I find strange. I hope our protests now can at least get us a coherent answer when they read out the patch notes.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Honestly, I think saying the devs are simplifying the game is giving them too much credit. Pressing kaiten before midare is not hard, as many kaiten detractors point out. Trick detractors also say keeping trick on cooldown isn't difficult, which is also true. You can't simplify these things any further. So what are the reasons for these changes? They're not nerfs, since the devs are gonna compensate us accordingly. It could be a buff, but doing so at the expense of ninja's core skills seems like a strange choice. It seems like they are trying to fix what isn't broken. As far as I am aware, the game is alright balance wise right now. The fact that the devs spent like 15 minutes showing us cool new minions instead of taking 3 minutes to explain their logic is something I find strange. I hope our protests now can at least get us a coherent answer when they read out the patch notes.

Maybe simplifying isn't the right word but I can only speak from a caster/smn main and they did simplify smn to the ground with its rework. I'm not saying these abilities were hard to use but they did add something to the jobs and that is being taken away for whatever reason. This whole 120s buff window thing imo is adding more rigidness into the game and I will be honest I don't really like it. As for balance yeah most of the jobs are balanced though I have said it once and I said again the caster role balance is a mess right now just because there isnt an in between job of a pure dps caster and a utility caster. Rdm can do everything an smn can do but better, so there might as well be just two casters right now....

Anyway, my post has gotten off-topic some so I wouldn't say much more than I agree with most that changing TA and deleting Kaiten is a bad decision on the devs part. Hope everyone has a great day!

[Manofpassion]

Ninjas were having too much fun, and as such, those abilities must be removed. Honestly a pretty possible reason from my point of view lmao

This at least unites the Sam's, smns, and nins. If we all screech loud enough, maybe they will do something. Their crusade to a more rigid 2 minute style is something I don't understand. I can see why some stuff like 3 minute battle litany has been changed, and I haven't heard too many complaints about it. But this seems like change for the sake of change. Devs need to learn to count and realise one minute buffs line up with 2 minute buffs, 3 minute buffs and even 4 minute buffs. That is the beauty of trick. I wonder if the devs can even do darkened fire in p3s if counting is so complicated.

I wouldn't mind them reworking mug, for me it's kind of a whatever ogcd. I've rarely ever thought to myself, good thing mug just gave me enough ninki for a bunshin or bhava. I know there is some optimisation with placing mug into trick by double weaving and whatnot, but if they removed the move, i wouldn't lose sleep like I would with trick. But I would be lying if I said having the opener be changed again isn't massively annoying. Good luck to the first ultimate nins sorting all this out day 1.

[dadong]

I took a peak at the Jp forums and some people were speculating that the 50 gauge requirement for bushin will be removed to balance the mug changes. Which sounds like a real possibility at this point, I hope it won't be the case. It would be the lowest effort fix to a problem they're creating with the trick mug swap.

[Hawuhawuu]

Ninjas were having too much fun, and as such, those abilities must be removed. Honestly a pretty possible reason from my point of view lmao

This at least unites the Sam's, smns, and nins. If we all screech loud enough, maybe they will do something. Their crusade to a more rigid 2 minute style is something I don't understand. I can see why some stuff like 3 minute battle litany has been changed, and I haven't heard too many complaints about it. But this seems like change for the sake of change. Devs need to learn to count and realise one minute buffs line up with 2 minute buffs, 3 minute buffs and even 4 minute buffs. That is the beauty of trick. I wonder if the devs can even do darkened fire in p3s if counting is so complicated.

I wouldn't mind them reworking mug, for me it's kind of a whatever ogcd. I've rarely ever thought to myself, good thing mug just gave me enough ninki for a bunshin or bhava. I know there is some optimisation with placing mug into trick by double weaving and whatnot, but if they removed the move, i wouldn't lose sleep like I would with trick. But I would be lying if I said having the opener be changed again isn't massively annoying. Good luck to the first ultimate nins sorting all this out day 1.

Double weaving clips on nin and should be avoided at all costs. The only acceptable time to double weaving is when potting. When clipping mug/bunshin together.bunshin before your 3rd gcd gives you 100 ninki in your opener which is now gone and or either yours or teams buffs dont get the full value from buffs as its not at an optimal time.

I personally will be doing whatever maximizes my damage over the parties. Thats their goal with this change.

[Hawuhawuu]

I dont care about the change. Its more the opener/rotation that worries me. Without a major rework it will be clunky missing ninki, gcds/ogcds and bunshin.

[elioaiko]

We are slowly but surely moving toward jobs having zero support outside of 2 min buffs.

Ever since they got rid of aggro management, NIN lost its utility in managing aggro for big damage dealers ala SAM/BLM.

Then they removed weapon type resistance debuffs, so they lost their other niche. (Although it was for the health of balance).

So then NIN just became a trick slave and almost always got hit with weak personal dps because they're sacrificing their damage for everyone else to thrive. But consensus was that there was a lot of work for little reward. Not to mention NIN is more punishing since you can still mess up mudras.

Eventually all of the rdps dps are going to be fighting for who has the best 2 min burst.

Idk what SE could do at this point to give "support" jobs more meaningful ways of support their team without it being damage related.

[RyuDragnier]

Ever since they got rid of aggro management, NIN lost its utility in managing aggro for big damage dealers ala SAM/BLM.

Then they removed weapon type resistance debuffs, so they lost their other niche. (Although it was for the health of balance).

So then NIN just became a trick slave and almost always got hit with weak personal dps because they're sacrificing their damage for everyone else to thrive. But consensus was that there was a lot of work for little reward. Not to mention NIN is more punishing since you can still mess up mudras.

You get it, as it feels like this has been something a long time coming (sadly). NIN has a lot they have to do for good damage output, and as of recently, the devs have stated they want complex jobs to do more damage, something completely opposite to how NIN has been for the longest (as it was complex and the lowest melee DPS). Going forward, it seems they want the majority of the support to come from the physical ranged and the casters (with the exceptions of BLM and MCH).

[Chasingstars]

Idk what SE could do at this point to give "support" jobs more meaningful ways of support their team without it being damage related.

There is lots of things that cause and remove status effects. But it remains to be seen if they would actually incorporate such things outside of blue mage related content.

[Darksoul9669]

Realistically Mug should just be trick attack now and suiton should lead into some sort of larger burst skill every minute instead. As it stands this change makes overall party interaction improve for the debuff, but doesn't actually solve the issue of drifting for the NIN itself. I also really don't see why we need to have so many buffs/debuffs on NIN at this point. We already have Huton to keep up, still have TA, Kassatsu (which I think flows fine but really all its doing for single target is making a useless jutsu actually do something), Bunshin, and now Mug. On top of that, it's kind of annoying imo that NIN's rotation doesn't really have much to make it feel like there's a big difference with the burst window anymore. Personal TA is just gonna be more of the same. As scuffed as the raiju opener was in 6.0 it was at least different and not the same paced Aeolian Edge combo. Meanwhile bunshin still is on a 90s CD so we're only getting that every third TA and Mug to line up. So while I think the transfer of the debuff to Mug is overall good, I don't really get why TA wasn't entirely changed, or the skills just swapped around and Mug becomes a stealth ability that does bigger damage. Really just something that at least doesn't retain drift issues.