Trick Attack

[Equitable_Remedy]

Here's my question: is this whining a testable hypothesis?

6.1 comes out next week. Give it a few weeks for people to play with it. Say, a month after 6.1, will there have been a mass exodus of NIN mains, or will it be like SMN? The forums/Reddit/Discord were nigh unanimous in declaring SMN dead forever, but I've never seen as many SMNs as I have since 6.0 (and I believe that there was some evidence that there were, in fact, more people playing SMN, though I can't find it atm).

I'm old enough to remember forums/Reddit/Discord declaring NIN unplayable because of Raiju—in hindsight, obviously wrong. I'm sure that this time will be different, though—this time.

[LeonKeyh]

Here's my question: is this whining a testable hypothesis?

6.1 comes out next week. Give it a few weeks for people to play with it. Say, a month after 6.1, will there have been a mass exodus of NIN mains, or will it be like SMN? The forums/Reddit/Discord were nigh unanimous in declaring SMN dead forever, but I've never seen as many SMNs as I have since 6.0 (and I believe that there was some evidence that there were, in fact, more people playing SMN, though I can't find it atm).

I'm old enough to remember forums/Reddit/Discord declaring NIN unplayable because of Raiju—in hindsight, obviously wrong. I'm sure that this time will be different, though—this time.

Lucy Pyre showed a pretty drastic increase in SMN players in a video about the OTHER horrible DPS change (Kaiten); 2.4k vs almost 13.5k; I think that the numbers were parses (not sure if it was distinct player parses, or total parses or what though).

I can't see this being a large enough change to have any effect (positive or negative) to the number of people playing NIN, but who knows.

[Manofpassion]

Whining is gonna happen if the devs aren't being transparent. If you don't like people complaining due to lack of dev transparency, there is a thread in general discussion discussing dev transparency, feel free to put your points there. I would personally not like to whine. That would be alleviated if the devs can communicate like normal human beings. All you've done so far is tell people “don't worry, it'll be fine, let's wait for 6.1”. Which is fine, but you are doing square's job for them. No offense, but I will only consider such statements seriously if the devs come out and say it themselves. The devs could elaborate on changes via a two sentence tweet, 2 minute YouTube video, forum post, they have a multitude of options. The fact they can't get the unpaid intern to make an extra ppt slide is kinda funny.

No one here is saying nin is dead. It'll be fine, metawise. Even when nin had 6 gapclosers in a row it was still fine, just annoying to deal with. Nin will be fine, even without trick. Will it be as fun, which is what most of us are concerned with? The devs haven't shown us any info to suggest otherwise. I will personally still keep playing nin. I can't change to other classes since I need to keep my raid gear and not grief ny static. I have doubts I will enjoy it as much as before.

Complaning now, instead of Complaing later when 6.1 nin is out, isn't gonna change anything either way tbh. Let's not kid ourselves, I'm not even sure they read the jp forums, much less the eng ones.

[MrJPtheAssassin]

Here's my question: is this whining a testable hypothesis?

6.1 comes out next week. Give it a few weeks for people to play with it. Say, a month after 6.1, will there have been a mass exodus of NIN mains, or will it be like SMN? The forums/Reddit/Discord were nigh unanimous in declaring SMN dead forever, but I've never seen as many SMNs as I have since 6.0 (and I believe that there was some evidence that there were, in fact, more people playing SMN, though I can't find it atm).

I'm old enough to remember forums/Reddit/Discord declaring NIN unplayable because of Raiju—in hindsight, obviously wrong. I'm sure that this time will be different, though—this time.

The reason you see alot of smn has nothing to do with how good the remake was, its because it's a really easy job to play and has pretty lights. Jobs like SMN and WHM will always be popular because they are simple and easy jobs to get into. That in fact doesn't mean the decisions SE made for that job were right or fun for all. As a long time smn main the new smn is watered down and unfun in most higher content. Did I enjoy leveling to 90? Yes but after a month or so with new smn the new worn off and shiny animations got old quickly. Now when I do play it I have all the summons set to small to not block my veiw of bosses and mechs in savage. My point is if a job is widely popular that does not mean it's not mechanically flawed. Making jobs easy to play does make them get played more by people who want an easy job to play but it also isolates the long time job mains who found the complexity of a job fun. SQ should be trying to find a happy middle between these two groups but right now they seem like they rather cater to the lowest denominator.

[aloneatsea]

Here's my question: is this whining a testable hypothesis?

6.1 comes out next week. Give it a few weeks for people to play with it. Say, a month after 6.1, will there have been a mass exodus of NIN mains, or will it be like SMN? The forums/Reddit/Discord were nigh unanimous in declaring SMN dead forever, but I've never seen as many SMNs as I have since 6.0 (and I believe that there was some evidence that there were, in fact, more people playing SMN, though I can't find it atm).

I'm old enough to remember forums/Reddit/Discord declaring NIN unplayable because of Raiju—in hindsight, obviously wrong. I'm sure that this time will be different, though—this time.

There's already been a mass exodus of NIN mains -- the very Raiju changes that made NIN 'unplayable' (at least in Zodiark EX) caused the population of Ninja players to plummet through the floor. Ninja is still the least played job in Endwalker, though it is finally recovering as of the 6.08 changes. The gap between it and MCH has been reducing every week.

You say that the forums declaring NIN unplayable was obviously wrong, but the fact that the NIN population dropped so dramatically relative to Shadowbringers (we must consider RPR being introduced, of course, but I imagine we'd have seen the drop spread more evenly across the other melee jobs) and the fact that Square Enix made very rapid changes to how Raijus worked seems like quite clear evidence to me that Ninja was indeed in a dire state and needed to be rectified quickly -- which it was, thank god.

It was still in a weak state until the 6.08 changes, which arguably made it too strong, but with the 6.05 and 6.08 changes, the number of NIN players began to increase again.

Will it be different this time? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm certainly not a fortune teller. I can, however, confidently say that these changes are unwanted, do not make sense alongside the given reason for the change (increased synergy with other jobs), and corrode what is considered by many the identity of Ninja at this point in time. Ergo, I would like these changes to be strongly reconsidered.