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  1. #1
    Player
    SieyaM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,189
    Character
    Sieya Mizuno
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    This is only true to an extent—and it doesn’t really hold up well to relevant content in SB, ShB, or even EW outside of certain Savage raids and Ultimate. There are plenty of other pieces of content that were extremely easy upon release (ex. Void Ark, Lakshmi EX, Susano EX, O1S, O2S, Byakko EX, O6S, Titania EX, Innocence EX, Zodiark EX, Hydaelyn EX, P1S) and continue to be quite faceroll. I mean, the two extremes for EW were done without healers weeks after they dropped…

    The challenging ones are kind of few and far between—and even the non-high tier ones that had a semblance of difficulty (Weeping City, Dun Scaith, the Ivalice raids) weren’t hard if one simply did the mechanics. Yet Orbonne gets to go down in history as the singular raid with automatic Echo and boss nerfs because people complained about “difficulty” when they really weren’t that hard.

    Heck, there is a solo instance in SB that is infamous for the amount of complaints it got because people just didn’t pay attention. Or went in horribly undergeared and got killed as a result.



    Yes, it was faceroll even when HW was relevant. Thordan Normal has always been ridiculously easy, and has always been criticized for it. FFXIV is my first MMO, and I was a very bad player back when I started; and even I was disappointed by Thordan normal. He didn’t feel threatening at all as an expansion’s final boss.

    At least they made up for that in Thordan EX.
    I don't know if using the extreme outliers, like people completing certain EX trails without healers, to say that content is too easy for everyone is a good idea. Yes these things have been done but those are extremely well coordinated groups using voice chat and BiS at the time, it is not indicative of the average players experience. After all people are speed running Elden Ring in under 10 minutes but I doubt we are all going to start calling that game too easy.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Lavender Beds, Ward 13, Plot 41
    Posts
    7,339
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 92
    Quote Originally Posted by SieyaM View Post
    I don't know if using the extreme outliers, like people completing certain EX trails without healers, to say that content is too easy for everyone is a good idea. Yes these things have been done but those are extremely well coordinated groups using voice chat and BiS at the time, it is not indicative of the average players experience. After all people are speed running Elden Ring in under 10 minutes but I doubt we are all going to start calling that game too easy.
    Even if you don’t consider the no-healer groups (which isn’t common at release for any piece of content), both EW extreme primals are incredibly easy. Zodiark EX alone is “follow the danger dorito”. You only need one person to understand the mechanics, and the other 7 can just follow them for an easy win. There’s really no argument when it comes to how content has consistently gotten easier and easier as the expansions progressed. And because of the simplification of just about everything in FFXIV, people complain the second a slight challenge appears.
    (5)
    Sage | Astrologian | Dancer

    마지막 날 널 찾아가면
    마지막 밤 기억하길

    Hyomin Park#0055

  3. #3
    Player
    SieyaM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,189
    Character
    Sieya Mizuno
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Even if you don’t consider the no-healer groups (which isn’t common at release for any piece of content), both EW extreme primals are incredibly easy. Zodiark EX alone is “follow the danger dorito”. You only need one person to understand the mechanics, and the other 7 can just follow them for an easy win. There’s really no argument when it comes to how content has consistently gotten easier and easier as the expansions progressed. And because of the simplification of just about everything in FFXIV, people complain the second a slight challenge appears.
    And yet there is still something of a struggle for players to clear some of these things, and by increasing difficulty across the board I guess you are going to tell them sorry you can't play anymore, find something else. I don't know if what we are really looking for is something more difficult, but something more engaging. All of this content no matter how difficult it begins becomes easy once the script is learned. Even the ultimates after players have cleared and learned the dance become easy for those players. It seems to me that to really engage the player base encounter design itself is going to have to be re-invented.
    (3)

  4. #4
    Player
    Ath192's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Posts
    1,801
    Character
    Aries Helle
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Hey! We get to do this all over again. Yes the normal content is too easy its boring. Hope they can bring it back close to how it was originally meant to be experienced. In fact it baffles me that lvl sync simply doesn't default to min ilvl, after all whats the point of giving super buffs to people in old content? I feel that makes new players feel like they just get carried by veterans and their contribution doesn't really mean much. It wasn't hard when it released, but at least it was more entertaining and you needed more than a half asleep warrior and one average DPS to clear it.

    As a bonus people wouldn't be spamming CT if it was anything close to the actual experience in 2013-2014.
    (5)

  5. #5
    Player
    Lyth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Meracydia
    Posts
    3,883
    Character
    Lythia Norvaine
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Viper Lv 100
    Part of the problem is that the player response to anything with even the slightest amount of wipe potential in standard roulettes is to simply drop out and accept the queue time penalty. We saw this with encounters like Steps of Faith previously.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyth View Post
    Part of the problem is that the player response to anything with even the slightest amount of wipe potential in standard roulettes is to simply drop out and accept the queue time penalty. We saw this with encounters like Steps of Faith previously.
    To be fair...steps of faith was stupid long and if you missed one of the mechanics the fight was a guaranteed fail, but it wouldn't end when you missed it and the dragon would just keep marching to the end of the bridge pointlessly wasting your time.

    So ya, I think steps of faith is a bad example.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    RobynDaBank's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Location
    Wraeclast
    Posts
    1,521
    Character
    Hope Sunflame
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    We better not catch you remove your level 80 armour before you queue into Alliance Roulettes, OP.
    (1)
    Mortal Fist

  8. #8
    Player
    nick124's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    11
    Character
    Jay Roc
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Fisher Lv 81
    Im glad to see everyone agree. When SE doesnt listen and we all get bored by elementary mechanics with no challenge, they'll be stuck with the audience they keep trying to please/appease, while the rest of us gamers move on to something more stimulating. The game maker shouldn't fear people quitting because a game is too hard, they should fear alienating most of their playerbase who are players who enjoy a game, want to be challenged, and want to grow beyond spoonfeeding marker mechanics 24/7
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Ronduwil's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    472
    Character
    Ronduwil Thaliakson
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by nick124 View Post
    Im glad to see everyone agree.
    When did every one agree with you? I'm perfectly fine with the elementary mechanics, and I prefer my challenges IRL, not in the kids' video game that I play at the end of a long day filled with challenges. There is already plenty of content in the game that allows you to "grow beyond spoonfeeding marker mechanics 24/7." Go do that and leave the rest of us to our chill gameplay.
    (8)

  10. #10
    Player
    Eraden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    1,229
    Character
    Mao Xifeng
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    When did every one agree with you? I'm perfectly fine with the elementary mechanics, and I prefer my challenges IRL, not in the kids' video game that I play at the end of a long day filled with challenges. There is already plenty of content in the game that allows you to "grow beyond spoonfeeding marker mechanics 24/7." Go do that and leave the rest of us to our chill gameplay.
    I would tend to agree with you. There are hard modes for a lot of content that would be more of a challenge for those seeking it. As for myself, I have several conditions, including Parkinson's disease, that make even some of the content done on easy mode still difficult for me to do. I do not know what specifically these proponents of making the game more challenging, are calling for, but if it means that the general level of challenge for everything gets raised, it might make this game no longer playable for me. I like the game as it is now.
    (5)

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