the normal content is too easy

[seraf]

Content is only relevant challenge wise during the expansion it was released in and then over time due to potency increases, stat modifications, etc the older content loses any challenge it actually had. I saw someone in here say that you can ignore every mechanic in Thordon Normal and not die. That is true but it wasn't true when Heavensward was brand new content.

[HyoMinPark]

Content is only relevant challenge wise during the expansion it was released in and then over time due to potency increases, stat modifications, etc the older content loses any challenge it actually had.

This is only true to an extent—and it doesn’t really hold up well to relevant content in SB, ShB, or even EW outside of certain Savage raids and Ultimate. There are plenty of other pieces of content that were extremely easy upon release (ex. Void Ark, Lakshmi EX, Susano EX, O1S, O2S, Byakko EX, O6S, Titania EX, Innocence EX, Zodiark EX, Hydaelyn EX, P1S) and continue to be quite faceroll. I mean, the two extremes for EW were done without healers weeks after they dropped…

The challenging ones are kind of few and far between—and even the non-high tier ones that had a semblance of difficulty (Weeping City, Dun Scaith, the Ivalice raids) weren’t hard if one simply did the mechanics. Yet Orbonne gets to go down in history as the singular raid with automatic Echo and boss nerfs because people complained about “difficulty” when they really weren’t that hard.

Heck, there is a solo instance in SB that is infamous for the amount of complaints it got because people just didn’t pay attention. Or went in horribly undergeared and got killed as a result.

I saw someone in here say that you can ignore every mechanic in Thordon Normal and not die. That is true but it wasn't true when Heavensward was brand new content.

Yes, it was faceroll even when HW was relevant. Thordan Normal has always been ridiculously easy, and has always been criticized for it. FFXIV is my first MMO, and I was a very bad player back when I started; and even I was disappointed by Thordan normal. He didn’t feel threatening at all as an expansion’s final boss.

At least they made up for that in Thordan EX.

[Rita1989]

Yes, it was faceroll even when HW was relevant. Thordan Normal has always been ridiculously easy, and has always been criticized for it. FFXIV is my first MMO, and I was a very bad player back when I started; and even I was disappointed by Thordan normal. He didn’t feel threatening at all as an expansion’s final boss.

At least they made up for that in Thordan EX.

Yeah I remember an early HW DF that basically messed up every mechanic on Thordan normal and his ult still couldn't kill the tank that was alive and they were able to just solo the rest even when he still had a decent chunk of health left.

[Ronduwil]

You are the minority, sorry, not sorry. Most people find the MSQ way too simple and its a common complaint everywhere when this game is brought up.

She is not the minority. Maybe on these forums that are predominantly used by players who lean toward the hardcore side, but there are literally millions of players who have never touched these forums, the Balance Discord, and/or your raiding FC that side with her. If she's in the minority, why do so many players take off their clothes when queueing for the Alliance Raid roulette? You can't tell me that they're doing it because they want more of a challenge.

[LeonKeyh]

She is not the minority. Maybe on these forums that are predominantly used by players who lean toward the hardcore side, but there are literally millions of players who have never touched these forums, the Balance Discord, and/or your raiding FC that side with her. If she's in the minority, why do so many players take off their clothes when queueing for the Alliance Raid roulette? You can't tell me that they're doing it because they want more of a challenge.

You pointing out that people on the forums/the balance/reddit/etc aren't the majority doesn't make the people who think the game is "too hard" or "perfect" not the minority.

You're saying "You're wrong because you don't have proof." and "I'm right despite not having proof."

[HyoMinPark]

She is not the minority. Maybe on these forums that are predominantly used by players who lean toward the hardcore side, but there are literally millions of players who have never touched these forums, the Balance Discord, and/or your raiding FC that side with her. If she's in the minority, why do so many players take off their clothes when queueing for the Alliance Raid roulette? You can't tell me that they're doing it because they want more of a challenge.

Do you have any proof of this? Because unless these silent players say something, you can’t really use them to back up your argument. The official forums is hardly a place for hardcore players—speaking as someone who has been posting on here since 2016, it’s mostly a mixed bag with some “hardcore”, some “casual”, and some “midcore”. “Literally millions” doesn’t hold much weight either, since the highest reported active user count was a little bit over a million pre-Endwalker. If you’re using the “25 million accounts registered” as data, do keep in mind that that count also counts RMT bots. It’s not accurate for actual players.

[technole]

There was kind of a reset on what primal difficulty should be in Stormblood, including bringing new designers into the fold.

Like Susano EX doesn't even hold a candle to Ravana EX when they were relevant. The normal trials were okay though, it's still hilarious to me when a tank hits Susano's reflect more than once and they fall out of the arena.

Yeah I remember an early HW DF that basically messed up every mechanic on Thordan normal and his ult still couldn't kill the tank that was alive and they were able to just solo the rest even when he still had a decent chunk of health left.

Yeah the story one was easy. It's amazing how much was cut out for normal.

The large skill gap needed between Thordan and Extreme version was that YoshiP kind of used it as an "AS2.5" because a lot of people were having trouble clearing A3S and the i205 weapons helped. To this day it's still the 'hardest' extreme that was ever released when relevant. Was a fun fight for sure.

[SieyaM]

This is only true to an extent—and it doesn’t really hold up well to relevant content in SB, ShB, or even EW outside of certain Savage raids and Ultimate. There are plenty of other pieces of content that were extremely easy upon release (ex. Void Ark, Lakshmi EX, Susano EX, O1S, O2S, Byakko EX, O6S, Titania EX, Innocence EX, Zodiark EX, Hydaelyn EX, P1S) and continue to be quite faceroll. I mean, the two extremes for EW were done without healers weeks after they dropped…

The challenging ones are kind of few and far between—and even the non-high tier ones that had a semblance of difficulty (Weeping City, Dun Scaith, the Ivalice raids) weren’t hard if one simply did the mechanics. Yet Orbonne gets to go down in history as the singular raid with automatic Echo and boss nerfs because people complained about “difficulty” when they really weren’t that hard.

Heck, there is a solo instance in SB that is infamous for the amount of complaints it got because people just didn’t pay attention. Or went in horribly undergeared and got killed as a result.



Yes, it was faceroll even when HW was relevant. Thordan Normal has always been ridiculously easy, and has always been criticized for it. FFXIV is my first MMO, and I was a very bad player back when I started; and even I was disappointed by Thordan normal. He didn’t feel threatening at all as an expansion’s final boss.

At least they made up for that in Thordan EX.

I don't know if using the extreme outliers, like people completing certain EX trails without healers, to say that content is too easy for everyone is a good idea. Yes these things have been done but those are extremely well coordinated groups using voice chat and BiS at the time, it is not indicative of the average players experience. After all people are speed running Elden Ring in under 10 minutes but I doubt we are all going to start calling that game too easy.

[HyoMinPark]

I don't know if using the extreme outliers, like people completing certain EX trails without healers, to say that content is too easy for everyone is a good idea. Yes these things have been done but those are extremely well coordinated groups using voice chat and BiS at the time, it is not indicative of the average players experience. After all people are speed running Elden Ring in under 10 minutes but I doubt we are all going to start calling that game too easy.

Even if you don’t consider the no-healer groups (which isn’t common at release for any piece of content), both EW extreme primals are incredibly easy. Zodiark EX alone is “follow the danger dorito”. You only need one person to understand the mechanics, and the other 7 can just follow them for an easy win. There’s really no argument when it comes to how content has consistently gotten easier and easier as the expansions progressed. And because of the simplification of just about everything in FFXIV, people complain the second a slight challenge appears.

[SieyaM]

Even if you don’t consider the no-healer groups (which isn’t common at release for any piece of content), both EW extreme primals are incredibly easy. Zodiark EX alone is “follow the danger dorito”. You only need one person to understand the mechanics, and the other 7 can just follow them for an easy win. There’s really no argument when it comes to how content has consistently gotten easier and easier as the expansions progressed. And because of the simplification of just about everything in FFXIV, people complain the second a slight challenge appears.

And yet there is still something of a struggle for players to clear some of these things, and by increasing difficulty across the board I guess you are going to tell them sorry you can't play anymore, find something else. I don't know if what we are really looking for is something more difficult, but something more engaging. All of this content no matter how difficult it begins becomes easy once the script is learned. Even the ultimates after players have cleared and learned the dance become easy for those players. It seems to me that to really engage the player base encounter design itself is going to have to be re-invented.