On the topic of DRG being busy and button bloat.

[LauraAdalena]

This does not mean that there are not things that cannot be polished, perfected or even reworked, but they cannot be done in a vacuum, as otherwise we'll end up with a job stripped of its identity.

I am being very careful with which abilities I recommend change. And no, the skills I am suggesting change are not just “it does damage”. If that were the case I’d ask for Mirage Dive to be removed which I’m not. Yes it provides filling the gauge for life of the dragon, but I say when it comes to that to not because of the way players currently use it to hold and get 2 LOTD in certain windows. I am actually one of those saying to be very careful when touching mirage dive. Wyrmwind Thrust specifically has very little interaction with other abilities other than Raiden Thrust so why not make it a buffed Raiden Thrust? And Dragonfire Dive is basically an AOE version of Spineshatter with one less charge, and do you know what other skill is that? Stardiver.

No, I am not making my suggestions in a bubble. Im doing it from experience of raiding on both of the maiming jobs and of having a similar issue with two casters last expansion around the same time. Last expansion Summoner was extremely over bloated, had too many weaves and nowhere to put Addle, and didn’t do as much damage as Red Mage compared to amount of effort done back at around the same time as now. It’s not exactly the same, but it’s very similar in its issues. Reaper is doing far more damage with far less effort, it allows you to weave feint a lot easier which is something necessary for a raid scenario, and had less issues with certain mechanics (which if they reduce the animation lock significantly and not just minorly will actually be fixed in the upcoming patch.)

I am not asking for changes in a bubble, I am not trying to remove the identity of the job and being very careful about which I ask for, and all of this is from experience from a previous expansion and what happened then and what is likely happening now in terms of people swapping off to the easier job because it’s just easier to get good damage on. Do I want a significant change to happen? No.. just a few tiny changes here or there to free up weave windows. And hell, that’s not even my biggest problem with Dragoon. My biggest problem is how Chaotic Spring doesn’t carry to the next one without serious SKS which causes far more weaving issues and that’s annoying. I don’t like watching my dot drop for long periods without re-applying but that’s me.

[Aco505]

I am being very careful with which abilities I recommend change. And no, the skills I am suggesting change are not just “it does damage”. If that were the case I’d ask for Mirage Dive to be removed which I’m not. Yes it provides filling the gauge for life of the dragon, but I say when it comes to that to not because of the way players currently use it to hold and get 2 LOTD in certain windows. I am actually one of those saying to be very careful when touching mirage dive. Wyrmwind Thrust specifically has very little interaction with other abilities other than Raiden Thrust so why not make it a buffed Raiden Thrust? And Dragonfire Dive is basically an AOE version of Spineshatter with one less charge, and do you know what other skill is that? Stardiver.

No, I am not making my suggestions in a bubble. Im doing it from experience of raiding on both of the maiming jobs and of having a similar issue with two casters last expansion around the same time. Last expansion Summoner was extremely over bloated, had too many weaves and nowhere to put Addle, and didn’t do as much damage as Red Mage compared to amount of effort done back at around the same time as now. It’s not exactly the same, but it’s very similar in its issues. Reaper is doing far more damage with far less effort, it allows you to weave feint a lot easier which is something necessary for a raid scenario, and had less issues with certain mechanics (which if they reduce the animation lock significantly and not just minorly will actually be fixed in the upcoming patch.)

I am not asking for changes in a bubble, I am not trying to remove the identity of the job and being very careful about which I ask for, and all of this is from experience from a previous expansion and what happened then and what is likely happening now in terms of people swapping off to the easier job because it’s just easier to get good damage on. Do I want a significant change to happen? No.. just a few tiny changes here or there to free up weave windows. And hell, that’s not even my biggest problem with Dragoon. My biggest problem is how Chaotic Spring doesn’t carry to the next one without serious SKS which causes far more weaving issues and that’s annoying. I don’t like watching my dot drop for long periods without re-applying but that’s me.

Until Wyrmwind Thrust was introduced, DRG was the only melee that had zero interaction between GCDs and oGCDs besides the use of Life Surge. WWT is a great capstone ability that we use outside and within burst and which fits the theme of DRG using line AoE attacks. It interacts with both our GCD and buff windows, since we should hold them for those, and it allows the flexibility to be used as an AoE or cleave tool depending on the situation or targets involved. Turning WWT into an entirely passive thing that buffs Raiden Thrust would make it an ability without any thought behind it and dry the periods between buff windows. As such, WWT has been a very good addition to the job's kit. You miss it when you play below level 90 and don't get the stacks after every Raiden.

It is absolutely correct that Mirage Dive cannot be removed with the way Life of the Dragon works right now, since it'd remove the ability to delay or enter Life at will. I also think that the animation is good and fits the job well, so I hope it never gets completely removed.

Dragonfire Dive is not an AoE version of Spineshatter Dive. It's a jump that has been there since ARR and it used to be one of the most damaging ones. We can't really compare DFD with Stardiver, when the latter is the capstone that Life grants us. Since you've been using RPR as a reference, Stardiver would be like Communio and DFD like Plentiful Harvest. The issue is that DFD just deals medium damage every 120s, hence why I ask that it gets its damage buffed or given a role such as providing resources. The fact that we have two jumps with AoE cleave attached to it does not mean that they share a role, because otherwise we could say that GSK and NAS are redundant too, since they are used for the same purpose if we don't take into account GSK's role of starting Life. We must always be wary and cautious about removing things, lest we end with a skeletal job.

Therefore, giving DFD a role that is not simply the "AoE jump" would round out the DRG's kit quite well.

We have to be careful when we compare jobs: RPR is a GCD-focused job like MNK, whereas DRG is the only oGCD-focused melee. Removing oGCDs from DRG without a general kit overhaul would strip the job of its unique aspects. Do we want all jobs to look the same in the end? I understand that it can be different to get used to DRG, but this happens with every job and it is precisely these differences that make them good. Otherwise we'd be playing the same thing with just graphic changes.

Reaper is doing far more damage with far less effort

RPR is more focused in personal damage, but it's not dealing "far more damage with less effort" at all. If anything, RPR should be doing a bit more.

My biggest problem is how Chaotic Spring doesn’t carry to the next one without serious SKS which causes far more weaving issues and that’s annoying

The duration of Chaotic Spring is a conscious choice because it lasts 24s and our rotation takes 25s or a bit less with SkS. For it not to drop, we'd need it to last 27s or change the GCD string and DoT so that it takes 30s to perform, or in other words, multiples of 2.5. I wouldn't really change that considering the things you can do sometimes, such as ending a phase or fight with a double Heavens' Thrust combo, and that 1s of leeway is good as it allows the DoT to finish, since refreshing a DoT in FFXIV fully replaces the previous one. Perhaps they should introduce a concept similar to the one in WoW in which refreshing a DoT that has 20% or less time left will add the damage of the new one on top without wasting the damage.