Hissatsu: Kaiten

[PangTong]

As many others have pointed out, if the goal was simply to reduce button bloat, there were other much better candidates that don't remove gameplay. Removing Kaiten also doesn't make the job less "busy", the kenki you spent on Kaiten now just goes into Shinten/Kyuten instead. So it can only be construed as intentionally making the job easier to play by removing something it's current players enjoy. It's not just unfair to people who like it the way it is, it's troubling as a game design decision.

Kaiten is hardly a trivial button, it's something you press all the time and factors into your basic resource management and oGCD planning. It's a core part of the rotation and has been from Samurai's first day. If they're removing it for being too hard it feels like nothing on any job is safe no matter how important it is to the gameplay. Is Gunbreaker gonna lose Continuation next?

What's even sadder is that ultimately it makes no difference. A player who didn't like or was bad at pressing Kaiten still won't deal decent damage and it still won't matter because there are no damage checks in casual content. All it does is hurt the players who want stimulating gameplay and there's already depressingly few options in that department. I'm kind of at the point of dreading job changes now because I'm just wondering what they're gonna take away this time.

[24spencer]

What's even sadder is that ultimately it makes no difference. A player who didn't like or was bad at pressing Kaiten still won't deal decent damage and it still won't matter because there are no damage checks in casual content. All it does is hurt the players who want stimulating gameplay and there's already depressingly few options in that department. I'm kind of at the point of dreading job changes now because I'm just wondering what they're gonna take away this time.

Scream this louder for the people in the back, because this is the case with nearly every button removal.
The people who weren't dpsing on healer didn't magically start because they neutered the healer DPS kits, just like the player too bad to hit kaiten or use trick attack isn't going to start playing properly thanks to this trick. It literally just pisses off the people who really enjoy these jobs at high end while trying to cater to a group that doesn't even care and will either drop it after getting it to cap or use it in alliance raids once a month and won't notice the change anyway. Baffling.

[Lily_Skye]

Kaiten was so boring to use, i'm glad they got rid of it

I didn't even have it in my hotbar to begin with

[Ransu]

Kaiten was so boring to use, i'm glad they got rid of it

I didn't even have it in my hotbar to begin with

Thank God you're not in my data center.

[ThivraK]

wish I could say the same :|

[Kolsykol]

Well see, in all honesty I do think and hope that they will revert this.
The feedback has been so overwhelmingly negative, maybe I am wrong but I am assuming it's the same on the JP forum?

[Cpt_Jack_Irons]

It's not simplicity for the sake of simplicity, they're removing the button to remove button bloat, which is especially a problem for console players.
Besides, I like white mage it's fun.

So all Classes should lose their cool or engaging gimmicks or abilities just because console controllers are horribly limiting?

[Cpt_Jack_Irons]

well... they coulda stacked buttons like they did with Hien in that one duty.
Or Thancred.
So Kaiten can live on instead and nothing about the rotation would really change.
But nooooooo. They had to bury Kaiten for that.

honestly i have never understood why we cant use weaponskill stacking normally, you will never use those weaponskills outside of combos

[Broken_Wind]

So all Classes should lose their cool or engaging gimmicks or abilities just because console controllers are horribly limiting?

Except they aren't horribly limiting. Whenever someone says they are they are talking out of their ass.

[Hyuinn]

I'm definitely missing something with your point on drift and Tsubame that makes you think that combining them wouldn't be nice. Doesn't Tsubame reset if you use any other GCD after your Iaijustu? Not sure I understand why you would need them to be separate buttons. Do you mean that it's more difficult to hit the other button after Iaijutsu, that there is skill expression in the fact that you have to hit 2 buttons instead of just slamming 1 until both go off?

IMO, Third Eye is bad design right now. It essentially gives you extra DPS if you take damage (I realize it's a minuscule amount, but it's still an overall bad design) which means you're rewarded for getting hit. You shouldn't be rewarding people for taking damage, and anything that increases damage is more likely to just be used "on cooldown" rather than being used at the "best" time. I know there are caveats with Third Eye in particular (and I know that most SAMs are using it for raid wides, not to stand in telegraphed/avoidable AEs), and the main effect is good for SAM, but I don't think it should give Kenki unless it's similar to TBN where it uses it and then gives it back if you "use it correctly." It should never be a DPS gain to get hit by something. That's just my opinion though, one that I'm sure SAM mains will hate me for saying.

You need to keep track of Tsubame Gaeshi cooldown to know when to Midare. If they're the same button you can't do that, hence why you need them separate. It's not about being easier or harder to press. using midare in the wrong time means you either have to wait 5 seconds or so before doing Kaeshi without using any other weaponskills or doing said weaponskill and drifting Tsubame for 8 to 12 seconds assuming you are not using Higanbana (which you probably are since both of them are 60s cooldown, so you will also mess up that timing).

Third Eye isn't supposed to be rewarding for getting hit. It rewards you for parrying, since you will get hit regardless in content. If you're stepping in AoEs to get Eye proc, you're doing it wrong, but that being said you could definitely not dodge something to keep uptime and use Third Eye to help your healer and get extra gauge which is still smart play if handled right.

I couldn't agree more, taking damage is a sign of weakness and puts you at risk of death; why should we reward players for doing this? Also how am I even supposed to know when to hit "Third Eye"??? The duration is so short and there's no way I could possibly know when an instance of unavoidable damage is coming out. It's extremely unfair and unfun to create skill gaps in a game via this unnecessary button bloat that Yoshida seems to have a hardon for.

Do the fight multiple times and read the cast bar so you'll know when to use Third Eye. After a few wipes you'll definitely know what's an AoE from the boss and what's not, what's dodgeable and what isn't. If the duration was longer people wouldn't have to learn how/when to use it and just "press on cooldown" as you guys are making it out to be. Sometimes you can't use Third Eye because you'll be weaving other stuff, so it falls onto you, the samurai, to decide if you're going to delay your Iaijustu a bit so you can parry and get extra gauge, or if you're gonna try to do it anyways regardless of how tight the execution would be.