Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Hyuinn]

Eukrasia is a GCD its only vaguely similar to DRK arts with its effect change,
but its no where near as spammable nor does it cost any resources.

also gurren is cool don't merge it with senei

shoha should just turn into an AOE
merge Tsubame and Iajutsu
third eye might aswell be deleted
and i don't think Yaten is necessary

I'm going to address point by point:
- shoha merge is nice, I don't get why paladin spirit's within / expiacion got this treatment and shoha didn't
- merging tsubame and iaijutsu isn't nice, learning how to not drift tsubame requires a lot of discipline which for me is core to what the samurai fantasy is, not a mindless brute swinging it's sword, and the same can be said about kaiten (requires some decision making alongside shinten so you have enough for your burst without overcapping it)
- if you're not using third eye then you're not ready to reach the skill ceiling of the job. it mitigates damage and gives you kenki back so you can do even more damage which is your goal by the end of the day. be smart and be rewarded.
- every melee needs movement options, a gtfo button is more than appreciated so you don't have to disengage too early from the target.

EDIT: forgot some points so...
- yeah don't merge guren with senei, I actually like senei's animation a lot more
- eukrasia cost one resource, which is time, the most important one because it's tied to the gcd. dark arts and kaiten don't make you lose a cast of something because of it.

[Xenon_S]

Reposting a short version of my main thread.

Instead of bickering about subjective measures such as aesthetics or depths of the skill, let's examine Kaiten with the scope of Action Bloat in mind using CPM as metric.

In 4.x, Samurai use Hagakure to eat Sen and spam more shinten, Kaiten is not action bloat
In 5.x, standard 1 min rotation uses 4 Kaiten per min, no compaints to Kaiten being action bloat.
In 6.0, Meikyo charge adds 1 extra Kaiten on opener, and Ogi 1 extra kaiten every 2 mins.

In ShB E12S P1, top 3 SAM had CPM of 47.6, 47.8, and 47.1
In EW P4S P2, top 3 SAM had CPM of 46.1, 45.3, and 46.1

Top P4S P2 log had 33 cast of Kaiten on 6:43 kill, that's 4.9 CPM. That's equivalent to 660 Kenki or 26.4 Shiten Casts, which is 3.93 CPM. It is barely a change, and EW SAM already has lower CPM than ShB SAM, the action bloat arugment does not stand.

No Action Bloat = No need to remove Kaiten.

[RezPls]

Hi, I've cleared all raid content in the game barring DR Savage (cause no interest in corralling 48 people originally) and I believe that we should reduce all jobs to 1 button.

Ultimate Power (level 1):
Deals an unaspected potency attack of 99k potency every 60 seconds for 12 minutes.
Heals all players in the party by 10k potency every 10s for 12 minutes.
Causes the player to suffer 10% of incoming damage for the next 12 minutes.

With the ultimate QoL change occurring at the harrowing level 10 (to help alleviate anxiety when using duty finder) a trait.

The Blessing Of Light (level 10):
The Ultimate Power will be automatically activated upon entering the Duty Finder and duration removed.


This will effectively remove all of that nasty button bloat so I can be focused on more important things when playing FFXIV like activating gpose, chatting with friends in the duty and in my countless Lalafel and Hrothgar love advocacy linkshells, and of course letting me relax and watch television to help ease my crippling anxiety I feel when I am perceived by other living beings.

edit: I have a feeling the 12 minute duration on the initial action might be too short for balance so the devs might need to increase or remove the duration on the base skill.

[LeonKeyh]

I'm going to address point by point:
[...]
- merging tsubame and iaijutsu isn't nice, learning how to not drift tsubame requires a lot of discipline which for me is core to what the samurai fantasy is, not a mindless brute swinging it's sword, and the same can be said about kaiten (requires some decision making alongside shinten so you have enough for your burst without overcapping it)
- if you're not using third eye then you're not ready to reach the skill ceiling of the job. it mitigates damage and gives you kenki back so you can do even more damage which is your goal by the end of the day. be smart and be rewarded.
[...]

I'm definitely missing something with your point on drift and Tsubame that makes you think that combining them wouldn't be nice. Doesn't Tsubame reset if you use any other GCD after your Iaijustu? Not sure I understand why you would need them to be separate buttons. Do you mean that it's more difficult to hit the other button after Iaijutsu, that there is skill expression in the fact that you have to hit 2 buttons instead of just slamming 1 until both go off?

IMO, Third Eye is bad design right now. It essentially gives you extra DPS if you take damage (I realize it's a minuscule amount, but it's still an overall bad design) which means you're rewarded for getting hit. You shouldn't be rewarding people for taking damage, and anything that increases damage is more likely to just be used "on cooldown" rather than being used at the "best" time. I know there are caveats with Third Eye in particular (and I know that most SAMs are using it for raid wides, not to stand in telegraphed/avoidable AEs), and the main effect is good for SAM, but I don't think it should give Kenki unless it's similar to TBN where it uses it and then gives it back if you "use it correctly." It should never be a DPS gain to get hit by something. That's just my opinion though, one that I'm sure SAM mains will hate me for saying.

[RezPls]

If there were an instance of raidwide damage, I'd simply avoid it.

I couldn't agree more, taking damage is a sign of weakness and puts you at risk of death; why should we reward players for doing this? Also how am I even supposed to know when to hit "Third Eye"??? The duration is so short and there's no way I could possibly know when an instance of unavoidable damage is coming out. It's extremely unfair and unfun to create skill gaps in a game via this unnecessary button bloat that Yoshida seems to have a hardon for.

[Ransu]

I couldn't agree more, taking damage is a sign of weakness and puts you at risk of death; why should we reward players for doing this? Also how am I even supposed to know when to hit "Third Eye"??? The duration is so short and there's no way I could possibly know when an instance of unavoidable damage is coming out. It's extremely unfair and unfun to create skill gaps in a game via this unnecessary button bloat that Yoshida seems to have a hardon for.

I hope this is sarcasm...

[LeonKeyh]

I hope this is sarcasm...

It is, because they're incapable of coming up with an objective way of disagreeing with it.

[RezPls]

It is, because they're incapable of coming up with an objective way of disagreeing with it.

No, I agree that we should remove all points of a skill check via inputs for the game. It's a product you're paying for, why should you be barred from access or have to feel like your doing labor or try-harding in a videogame. That just isn't fun and I agree that we should be flattening the curb completely on skill/output for all jobs.

[Ransu]

There are raid wide attacks that you can't avoid....That's generally when you pop third eye.

[LeonKeyh]

There are raid wide attacks that you can't avoid....That's generally when you pop third eye.

Yep, and that's where the proper use of Third Eye is. We're all on the same page there.