Hissatsu: Kaiten

[BokoToloko]

I don't really feel much about that change, to be honest. It looked cool but that's it.

I don't really mind much using it now, but I won't lose sleep over them removing it either.

[Faafetai]

I need to still watch the whole live letter are they just removing it? Also is the gauge just going to be used for movement abilities or are they planning on getting rid of that too? I am already annoyed Trick attack is going to be a personal buff because that is going to nerf all classes damage and they will not balance around this, they never think of these things having a cascading effect on damage. They also wait super long to fix it. 'Gee golly willikers batman it seems some classes damage is way less than before' 'Gee have no clue how that happened' Looks at the removal of a bunch of skills and the fact that nothing has been buffed to reflect the changes elsewhere. Dancer not getting those extra procs or a way to increase proc odds still bug me since they changed it to use one or the other. I know drk isn't hurting for damage but the only use abyssal or carve and split annoyed me as well.

I would be less annoyed if I didn't know why they are doing these changes. If people are having a problem aligning a buff that is their problem. You don't just take it away. What is it they say? get gud? I know 13 year olds that play this game better than most 30 year olds who are we nerfing these things for? who are actually having these problems? If people are licking windows and eating glue or just want to watch netflix they can still i lvl cheese for crystal tower to do those things, so I don't really see the problem. Well I guess prae is being removed so one less netflix dungeon.

[SnowVix]

I need to still watch the whole live letter are they just removing it? Also is the gauge just going to be used for movement abilities or are they planning on getting rid of that too? I am already annoyed Trick attack is going to be a personal buff because that is going to nerf all classes damage and they will not balance around this, they never think of these things having a cascading effect on damage. They also wait super long to fix it. 'Gee golly willikers batman it seems some classes damage is way less than before' 'Gee have no clue how that happened' Looks at the removal of a bunch of skills and the fact that nothing has been buffed to reflect the changes elsewhere. Dancer not getting those extra procs or a way to increase proc odds still bug me since they changed it to use one or the other. I know drk isn't hurting for damage but the only use abyssal or carve and split annoyed me as well.

I would be less annoyed if I didn't know why they are doing these changes. If people are having a problem aligning a buff that is their problem. You don't just take it away. What is it they say? get gud? I know 13 year olds that play this game better than most 30 year olds who are we nerfing these things for? who are actually having these problems? If people are licking windows and eating glue or just want to watch netflix they can still i lvl cheese for crystal tower to do those things, so I don't really see the problem. Well I guess prae is being removed so one less netflix dungeon.

the irony of someone not knowing SAM's kit trying to "git gud" over the removal of the most boring part of the kit is hilarious. in ST you use your Kenki on Shinten and Senei, in AoE on Kyuten and Guren

[ShanaShirayuki]

the irony of someone not knowing SAM's kit trying to "git gud" over the removal of the most boring part of the kit is hilarious. in ST you use your Kenki on Shinten and Senei, in AoE on Kyuten and Guren

I can name other abilities they could change or remove instead of removing a core mechanic of the class; nonetheless one that gives it an identity along with the cool sword twirling animation.

I. Shoha II; lazily named ability that could be traited to Shoha for fall-off aoe damage.
II. Senei and Guren; the same could be done to this.
III. Ikishoten and Namikiri

I was proud to play a class that demands high skill to do optimal damage; removing Kaiten to 'combat button bloat' does nothing but remove part of the class' core identity and dumbs it down when there are other areas that could have been addressed. As an addendum if it means anything, SAM Main here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[VictorSpoils]

I can name other abilities they could change or remove instead of removing a core mechanic of the class; nonetheless one that gives it an identity along with the cool sword twirling animation.

I. Shoha II; lazily named ability that could be traited to Shoha for fall-off aoe damage.
II. Senei and Guren; the same could be done to this.
III. Ikishoten and Namikiri

I was proud to play a class that demands high skill to do optimal damage; removing Kaiten to 'combat button bloat' does nothing but remove part of the class' core identity and dumbs it down when there are other areas that could have been addressed. As an addendum if it means anything, SAM Main here. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This could work too. It gets rid of four buttons, which would leave enough room for Kaiten to come back as well as Seigan and Merciful Eyes.

[Faafetai]

the irony of someone not knowing SAM's kit trying to "git gud" over the removal of the most boring part of the kit is hilarious. in ST you use your Kenki on Shinten and Senei, in AoE on Kyuten and Guren

Aye I am speaking from lower levels. I only am at level 60, if you take that away, I will have nothing to do at that level. I know they are balancing around end game but can my leveling experience not be the same thing until I reach end game? I said git gud because they keep saying dumb things at square like people can't play the game so we are removing X. literally every time, and than they go back and say naw brah its cause button bloat.

I think at this point they should just go the whole way and make you push 1 button until your 90, done. No button bloat until 90 everyone because thats how it starts to feel on most classes. Skills keep getting taken or moved to the end so when you are leveling it is painful sometimes. I just want to learn the fundamentals of a class as I go rather than bam here you go here is all of the stuff we took from earlier levels now leveling to 50 is just wow I get to be forced to do a class quest for nothing now and hey look a new skill was added that was similar to the skills I use to have like whm's suspiciously similar water spell. I am just sick of having to wait forever for my skills and constantly being synced down when I finally get them if I didn't actively queue for the later raids or dungeons I would never know how to play any of the classes at anything other than level 50.

There are many buttons that can be combo buttons and many that can turn into other things, why they do not just do that? They have done it with many things already. Why remove it, because at end game it is a boring part of the rotation. Give me some other things early than at 60 right now the only thing I can spend it on are Hissatsu: Gyoten and Hissatsu: Yaten
Hissatsu: Kaiten is literally the only other thing I can spend it on unless for damage at level 60 what I am now going to do is Meditate and literally go in and out of combat like a bafoon I guess? Save it for a rainy day and movement intensive fights? You just over cap your gauge now and learn nothing of later levels. WONDERFUL! At least monk got some love early levels.

[RyuDragnier]

I need to still watch the whole live letter are they just removing it? Also is the gauge just going to be used for movement abilities or are they planning on getting rid of that too? I am already annoyed Trick attack is going to be a personal buff because that is going to nerf all classes damage and they will not balance around this, they never think of these things having a cascading effect on damage. They also wait super long to fix it. 'Gee golly willikers batman it seems some classes damage is way less than before' 'Gee have no clue how that happened' Looks at the removal of a bunch of skills and the fact that nothing has been buffed to reflect the changes elsewhere. Dancer not getting those extra procs or a way to increase proc odds still bug me since they changed it to use one or the other. I know drk isn't hurting for damage but the only use abyssal or carve and split annoyed me as well.

I would be less annoyed if I didn't know why they are doing these changes. If people are having a problem aligning a buff that is their problem. You don't just take it away. What is it they say? get gud? I know 13 year olds that play this game better than most 30 year olds who are we nerfing these things for? who are actually having these problems? If people are licking windows and eating glue or just want to watch netflix they can still i lvl cheese for crystal tower to do those things, so I don't really see the problem. Well I guess prae is being removed so one less netflix dungeon.

They're removing it and making several moves auto-crits to compensate. That's right, SAM will have auto-crits.

[Ransu]

They're removing it and making several moves auto-crits to compensate. That's right, SAM will have auto-crits.

Which is nice, unless they mess up the potencies and our overall dps ends up being nerfed lol.

[KokaSokaLoka]

As a SAM main I'd like to add my thoughts to this

1. Hissatsu Kaiten is a fun flavor ability. It's not just a button press that puts the buff on your bar and you press for the sake of pressing it, there's a cool animation to it that adds to the feel of the class. Taking it away is just not fun.

2. Button bloat IS NOT THE SAME as ogcd usage. SAM has a BUTTON BLOAT issue, not an ogcd issue. The fact that they cite getting rid of this due to button bloat does feel tone deaf when Shoha 1 and 2 exist and when Ikishoten and Ogi Namikiri are different buttons. That's already two buttons. If it was really that big of an issue after those two quick fixes you could combine the single target and aoe kenki spenders, or give Jinpu -> Gekko and Shifu -> Kasha the GNB treatment. That's 4 more buttons available. Not sure if it'd be a programming nightmare but combining the Iaijutsus with the Kaeshi charges could also reduce another button. That's 7 buttons in all they could reduce before even taking a look at Kaiten.

3. More on ogcd usage. I like having a lot of ogcds. If I'm not feeling that, I've got a boat load of classes with far easier ogcd management I could play. But to me, the "piano" classes have always been the most fun. People complain about FFXIVs slow GCD speed when they start the game, but that's because they don't realize how much weaving has to be done in end game. If it was ogcd usage that was a problem third eye would be on the chopping block. I like weaving kaiten, shinten, senei, third eye and shoha - it's a big part of why I play the class. If button bloat was the issue, they had ways of resolving that without taking away an ogcd.

[KokaSokaLoka]

4. Resource management. We went from having 3 kenki spenders down to 2, which Senei/Guren is a on 2 minute CD that lines up with Ikishoten so really you had 2 kenki spenders down to 1 now. Having a gauge with only one way to spend the resource is boring. Other classes have that issue. I'm sure some people like it and I'm fine with that, let them have some classes that have that option. But having to balance kenki usage to ensure I didn't dip below Kaiten's cost was part of the fun in resource management. It wasn't just a button for the sake of pressing a button like BLMs Enochian was. Because unlike Enochian where you're going to press it no matter what, floating kenki high so you have enough kenki to do what you need while having the risk of overcapping was a conscious choice with autonomous decision making. On top of that, since Senei only takes 25 kenki it was helpful to be able to weave kaiten and shinten together to eat 45 kenki before ikishoten came up so I could maximize kenki for raid buffs.

5. SAM still puts out good damage even if you don't play it optimally. Forget to Kaiten before midare? Not the end of the world. Never touch third eye? Not a gigantic loss. Overcap your kenki on accident? No big deal. You could play the class as casually as you wanted and still do decent damage. But I like high skill ceilings. You can make the skill floor as low as you want, but don't lower the skill ceiling. Optimizing is a big part of the fun for me, simple classes just leave me kind of bored. Resolving button bloat would do far more in helping more casual players pick up the class.

6. Just to add to this since it's related to kaiten being taken away: I don't like autocrits. I don't like them for WAR and I don't like it for SAM. On top of it being anti-synergetic with crit buffs it's just not a fun philosophy. When every hit is a crit, no hit is a crit. What's the fun of rolling a Nat 20 when there are no other numbers on the dice? If damage variance was the issue the easy answer was to reduce the potency of Ogi Namikiri/Midare and move it into the rest of the kit. If SE is planning on guaranteeing crits more and more then at the very least crit buffs need to move from improving crit chance to improving crit damage.

All in all, I felt like SAM was in an incredibly solid spot at this point and could've gone without ANY changes compared to some of the other classes. I don't really care if this class is the top dps class or the ideal dance partner, I stuck with SAM when RPR came out and MNK was the king of melee damage. I like the class, Kaiten is a big part of the class. So unless there's more changes coming that are going to resolve the issues I've described above I can't imagine that these changes will be fun ones.