Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Silver-Strider]

Right... Ten Chi Jen, Suiton into cooldowns.

At no point does it feel like the job stutters because of a randomly placed cast-bar.

I have to stop moving for Ten Chi Jen and if I do move, the rotation is thrown off because I miss the Sulton at the end. It's way more punishing than Midare and has the exact same stipulation of being unable to move but at least all I do with Midare is delay the skill a second or two. You're argument that Midare is some sort of stutter is asinine. I don't even play SAM or NIN and I can tell you, I much prefer SAM's "stutter" to NIN's Ten Chi Jen any day of the week.

[Ransu]

Random? What? The entire concept of the job is to build up resources and then dump it into midare...There's nothing random about it and your reasoning is beyond stupid. Should we take mudras away from Ninja's too? Heaven forbid we interrupt your combos for something that differentiates the job from others. We don't want to confuse you after all.

SAM cast is a good design and one that keeps it balanced. Without the cast their potency would have to drop significantly.

[GrizzlyTank]

Only issue with Mudras for ninja is how you lose out on the cooldown if you fail it, otherwise once you got the ninja rotation down it flows quite nicely. Same could be said for the Dancers step.

The SAM cast bar stands out like a sore thumb.

[Ransu]

Only issue with Mudras for ninja is how you lose out on the cooldown if you fail it, otherwise once you got the ninja rotation down it flows quite nicely. Same could be said for the Dancers step.

The SAM cast bar stands out like a sore thumb.

But by your complaints with SAM, the NIN mudras literally fall into the same situation. You have to stop attacking and cast your mudras which is effectively the same as a cast bar just you're doing mudra combos instead of looking at a cast bar. If anything, messing up mudras due to random server lag not registering a global is more interruptive than a cast bar.

Both mechanics are fine obviously, but your complaint about SAM cast bars make no sense.

[GrizzlyTank]

But by your complaints with SAM, the NIN mudras literally fall into the same situation. You have to stop attacking and cast your mudras which is effectively the same as a cast bar just you're doing mudra combos instead of looking at a cast bar. If anything, messing up mudras due to random server lag not registering a global is more interruptive than a cast bar.

Both mechanics are fine obviously, but your complaint about SAM cast bars make no sense.

You can move while casting mudras.

[Ransu]

You can move while casting mudras.

And? So what?

Also,

Ability: Ten Chi Jin;
Temporarily converts each of the three mudra into a ninjutsu action. Executing one of these actions will convert the remaining mudra into different ninjutsu actions until all three have been executed or the Ten Chi Jin effect expires.
Duration: 6s
Only ninjutsu available while active. The same ninjutsu cannot be executed twice.
Cannot be executed while under the effect of Kassatsu. Effect ends upon moving.

The cast bars are not randomly placed. Nowhere does it "stutters" and you are lovely proof that just because someone is able to level everything to 90 it doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

I agree with this sentiment. The cast bar is ludoconceptually very appropriate for SAM, both with the idea of Samurai centering themselves and attacking with a delay, and with the idea of SAM being a successor to the Mystic Knight job.

I can't really comment on mudras because despite being made integral to the job I think they are also the reason why NIN is a horrible expression of the ninja job fantasy. Whatever shadow-assassin-acrobat flavor the job used to or might have had seems to have been abandoned for a lot of Naruto BS and an excess of elemental magic on a *mid-rage melee* job. Inasmuch as I think that SAM is one of the most creative and elegant implementations of a classic job fantasy in XIV, I think NIN is one of, if not the worst (alongside poor schizoid SCH).

Ninjutsu is a core part of the ninja fantasy and the hand signs are based off of real hand signs called kuji kiri. Granted in real ninjutsu the nine syllables are used for meditation, but that is generally where it is derived from. In FFXI ninjutsu was a spell cast, but clearly the FFXIV team took a different approach to go for a more recognizable play design with the mudras.

[SeverianLyonesse]

Ninjutsu is a core part of the ninja fantasy and the hand signs are based off of real hand signs called kuji kiri. Granted in real ninjutsu the nine syllables are used for meditation, but that is generally where it is derived from. In FFXI ninjutsu was a spell cast, but clearly the FFXIV team took a different approach to go for a more recognizable play design with the mudras.

Kuji Kiri is fine. The mudras are basically spells, and I don't see why of all the jobs Ninja was the one that needed to carry over XI's "suite of elemental magic spells." Ninjutsu could have been refashioned into literally anything--see SAM's focus on wind/ice or MNK's focus on earth/wind/fire. Personally I think NIN should cut Katon, Raiton, and Dota Mekkyaku (and maybe Doton) and lean into water/ice attacks.

[SeverianLyonesse]

But by your complaints with SAM, the NIN mudras literally fall into the same situation. You have to stop attacking and cast your mudras which is effectively the same as a cast bar just you're doing mudra combos instead of looking at a cast bar. If anything, messing up mudras due to random server lag not registering a global is more interruptive than a cast bar.

Both mechanics are fine obviously, but your complaint about SAM cast bars make no sense.

I agree with this sentiment. The cast bar is ludoconceptually very appropriate for SAM, both with the idea of Samurai centering themselves and attacking with a delay, and with the idea of SAM being a successor to the Mystic Knight job.

I can't really comment on mudras because despite being made integral to the job I think they are also the reason why NIN is a horrible expression of the ninja job fantasy. Whatever shadow-assassin-acrobat flavor the job used to or might have had seems to have been abandoned for a lot of Naruto BS and an excess of elemental magic on a *mid-rage melee* job. Inasmuch as I think that SAM is one of the most creative and elegant implementations of a classic job fantasy in XIV, I think NIN is one of, if not the worst (alongside poor schizoid SCH).

[Amh_Wilzuun]

With slidecasting I can cast midares while doing lightwaves in EW EX 2. No excuse if you can't handle the cast bar

[GrizzlyTank]

120sec cooldown too, sam is stuck with the stutter in their core rotation.