Hissatsu: Kaiten

[Ransu]

Playing with controller and have had zero issues with kaiten.

What does make me really dislike samurai on the other hand, is the castbar for their finisher.
It just breaks their flow.

It honestly doesn't and they'd have to lower potency significantly if those skills didn't have a cast time.

[GrizzlyTank]

It honestly doesn't and they'd have to lower potency significantly if those skills didn't have a cast time.

Having played all the other melee jobs, yes...

The cast-bar very much destroy the flow of a melee job.

[Ransu]

Having played all the other melee jobs, yes...

The cast-bar very much destroy the flow of a melee job.

So you want one of the things that makes SAM interesting to go away so it can play exactly like all the other melees? I thought we didn't want jobs to all be the same?

It absolutely does not destroy the flow of the rotation. You build 3 sen and then charge for a big swing. It makes complete sense in the same way you would plant your foot and sort of "wind up" to swing a baseball bat. You're sheathing your sword and winding up for a powerful and fast draw to do big damage.

Saying SAM cast ability destroys the flow is like saying jump for dragoon or mudras for ninja interrupt their flows. It makes no sense.

[Jin-]

Having played all the other melee jobs, yes...

The cast-bar very much destroy the flow of a melee job.

This kind of mentality is why we can't have nice unique jobs anymore. Sigh..

[LeonKeyh]

Cast bar definitely isn't a problem and doesn't at all break up the flow. They don't really have a ton of GCDs they need to get out that you're losing out on from the cast.

It "feels" good for sure.

I, too, play with controller though and Kaiten isn't a problem. I feel like they just see a huge difference between the bottom of the barrel (No Kaiten + No crit Midare) and the best outcome (Kaiten + Crit Midare) and are making 2 separate changes to bring those together. "Fixing" the issue where people don't understand the proper use of Kaiten as well as "fixing" the randomness of the damage.

I also fear, like so many other people, that this is just the newest victim of the tidal wave of simplification (seems like my job, DRG is next) which is seemingly targeting jobs at random given the fact that there are so many "worse" jobs in terms of APM. Maybe they just don't have a good solution for those jobs though.

[GrizzlyTank]

With dragoon and most other movement abilities, once you use jump, you are stuck with it until you are given control back and you can continue on with your rotation. With sam you can very easily interrupt yourself, especially with a controller, turning what should have been a 1,2,buff,3 rotation into 3,3,...,3.

And given enough times, yeeh, no it's not a satisfying feeling.

[Ransu]

That's a player problem not a flow problem. Why are you moving when you know you're about to do a cast? That's like saying BLM should just instant cast everything because you might accidentally interrupt a cast because you can't figure out to keep your thumb off the joystick.

[GrizzlyTank]

The random cast-bar is a two pronged problem. For 8 buttons the job plays exactly like the other melee jobs and then you are thrown a stutter... A stutter that can be extended by something no other melee roles have to deal with.

Just because it's been a part of SAM since it's release doesn't make it a good design.

[Silver-Strider]

The random cast-bar is a two pronged problem. For 8 buttons the job plays exactly like the other melee jobs and then you are thrown a stutter... A stutter that can be extended by something no other melee roles have to deal with.

Just because it's been a part of SAM since it's release doesn't make it a good design.

Just because you can't grasp something, doesn't make it poor design, especially when the entire class's mechanic revolves around it. You honestly come off as someone that would complain that Dark Souls is poorly designed because it's hard, it's kind of sad honestly.

Only issue with Mudras for ninja is how you lose out on the cooldown if you fail it, otherwise once you got the ninja rotation down it flows quite nicely. Same could be said for the Dancers step.

The SAM cast bar stands out like a sore thumb.

Ten Chi Jen. That is all.

[GrizzlyTank]

Just because you can't grasp something, doesn't make it poor design, especially when the entire class's mechanic revolves around it. You honestly come off as someone that would complain that Dark Souls is poorly designed because it's hard, it's kind of sad honestly.

While I'm not going to lie that i haven't finished any of the souls games. I have still very much loved them even with some fault they got like DS2 hitboxes being a bit messy and that casting in DS3 wasn't tweaked to deal with the faster combat from bloodborne.

And then there is Demon Souls which was a beacon off a game among the disappointingly easy and linear games that were released during that period, and we almost never got it in the west cause of it's poor reviews in japan...

Ten Chi Jen. That is all.

Right... Ten Chi Jen, Suiton into cooldowns.

At no point does it feel like the job stutters because of a randomly placed cast-bar.