New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[aveyond-dreams]

There are no problems with the engine or with the model. If there were some problems then the mods would not work at all. But the modders had fixes for this ear problem within a few hours.

The question comes up, why the modders can fix those problems so quickly and the game designers cannot?


Cheers

Precisely this. It appears that other people were able to go in and figure out the inner workings of these models while the people who are being paid to do this job couldn't or wouldn't. Are their schedules for work so packed that no time could be spared for this? Because nothing in this situation adds up.

[FawkesWyznfarr]

I will be taking a more controversial take on this.
But if the models are so bad as to result in such a big and hard problem to tackle then I could see one of two things that could be done.
1. They could remake the Hrothgar 3D model as a whole, redesign them to work with the engine and be less of a headache to work with.
2. Rework the engine and accommodate for Hrothgar and Viera. Put people to make the code to allow these changes to be implemented.
I honestly don't think it's an impossible task since other MMOs have done it before. Nothing is impossible, you just have to put time and effort into making it work. It is almost baffling that the pay-locked races (the ones you need to pay for the base game + Shadowbringers) are the ones being so restricted.
Male Viera's are out and the team has figured out a way to add hairstyles to both Male and Female Viera. I say take them and until 6.5-7.0 work on their model and make it fully integrated (no more limitations bull). Then after they are done go and rework the Hrothgar models to fully integrate them as well (+add the females) in 7.0.

Time and effort are two words foreign to the dev team. Then again, the pvp update is really fun.

[Allegor]

Precisely this. It appears that other people were able to go in and figure out the inner workings of these models while the people who are being paid to do this job couldn't or wouldn't. Are their schedules for work so packed that no time could be spared for this? Because nothing in this situation adds up.

That's the most confusing part. I won't pretend to even understand anything about coding, but if it took modders not even 6 hours after patch release to fix the ears, I kinda question if it really would've taken the devs - the people that created the race - more than, idk, an evening to achieve the same results. It really sounds like a case of "they wouldn't" rather than "they couldn't"

[Larirawiel]

That's the most confusing part. I won't pretend to know anything about coding, but if it took modders not even 6 hours after patch release to fix the ears, I kinda question if it really would've taken the devs - the people that created the race - more than, idk, an evening to achieve the same results

That is the reason why i think, that the game has a management problem and not "1.0 spaghetti code"-problems. It sems, that the game designers are constrained by some really weird rules and cannot deliver proper results. Either they have a huge lack of game designer ressources (it is a management decision) and/or they have still a "must run on a PS3"-policy and the game designers must not break it. But the latter is also a management decision. This two possibilities make sense to me.



Cheers

[Rathmir]

That's the most confusing part. I won't pretend to even understand anything about coding, but if it took modders not even 6 hours after patch release to fix the ears, I kinda question if it really would've taken the devs - the people that created the race - more than, idk, an evening to achieve the same results. It really sounds like a case of "they wouldn't" rather than "they couldn't"

As the new frameset is delivered, the solution isn't related to modelling or coding itself. Just change a flag, which is something like 5-10 clicks.

Turning the ears invisible was just a poor design desicion, not more, not less.

[Denji]

snip

You claiming it's a misconception without anything to back it up is negated by the fact that threads about both viera and hrothgar hairstyles have been around for years and for both races they did not listen to either of them.

Even if it were a misconception, the utter lack of acknowledging the community unless it's a controversial change that they always have already implemented without asking in of itself counts as neglect.

This entire thread is quite literally evidence of this neglect. They didn't listen for years, didn't listen to what hairstyles we wanted and didn't listen when we all collectively decided we would rather forego the earless peanut karen styles.

Example: At any point they could have said to us they were clarifying the fantasia patch issue but chose to wait until the 2nd version of the patch notes. They left us hanging for over a week while threads like this spiraled out of control and then in the patch notes without more acknowledgement added a single sentence.

That's either ignoring us or incompetence. Neither is a good look.

If square wants us to not feel like we're ignored, that's on them to recrify. Not you. They pay PR people to do the job you're doing for free.

[Iedarus]

I just don't understand why they felt the need to not only lie, but also expect us to be cool with the lead Hrothgar designer thinking it would be a good idea to attach ears to HAIR. Never in my experience playing MMOs have I ever heard of such a concept. Although now that we know the base head models are separate from the hair (and ears, apparently), they now have no excuse to not give more options to Hroth players.

It doesn't make any sense...if they just said: "Hey you guys only have two hairstyles to choose from right now," it would suck, but the backlash wouldn't nearly be as severe. IF THEY JUST LET THE EARS CLIP THROUGH THE HAIR, THE BACKLASH WOULDN'T NEARLY BE AS SEVERE!

Also can someone explain to me why cutting the ears off for hairstyles is okay but Hrothgar/Viera still aren't allowed to wear hats? Where's the consistency? Just letting the ears clip would look LEAGUES better than the "method" they're using now.

[HollowedDoll]

I just don't understand why they felt the need to not only lie, but also expect us to be cool with the lead Hrothgar designer thinking it would be a good idea to attach ears to HAIR. Never in my experience playing MMOs have I ever heard of such a concept. Although now that we know the base head models are separate from the hair (and ears, apparently), they now have no excuse to not give more options to Hroth players.

It doesn't make any sense...if they just said: "Hey you guys only have two hairstyles to choose from right now," it would suck, but the backlash wouldn't nearly be as severe. IF THEY JUST LET THE EARS CLIP THROUGH THE HAIR, THE BACKLASH WOULDN'T NEARLY BE AS SEVERE!

Also can someone explain to me why cutting the ears off for hairstyles is okay but Hrothgar/Viera still aren't allowed to wear hats? Where's the consistency? Just letting the ears clip would look LEAGUES better than the "method" they're using now.

Hrothgar ears aren't separate or on the hair, still very much part of the head model, just with an added flag that roughly translates to: if these hair are equipped = hide ear segment, and yes I feel like clipping definitely would've been the way to go with Square doing their best to minimize it, since in it's current iteration there seems to be not much effort to conform the hair to the skull, so the shorter ear option would only be slightly visible, that said at least it would be there. It's kinda puzzling that they're willing to make slight changes to hairs like miqote, au ra, viera ( albeit for viera punching two unnecessary holes in the scalp is kinda pointless ) who have somewhat unusual things going on by some standard but aren't willing to do the same here.

[Allegor]

I suppose the ears being attached to the head would explain why they're 100% static, at least Viera ears boing a bit when they jump or when there's strong wind. In a perfect world, they'd both be like Miqo'te and at least move with certain emotes

[SherlottaEryut]

I suppose the ears being attached to the head would explain why they're 100% static, at least Viera ears boing a bit when they jump or when there's strong wind. In a perfect world, they'd both be like Miqo'te and at least move with certain emotes

I prefer the stiffness of the Viera’s ears.
It’s how they were in XII and I wouldn’t have them any other way. The image of their ears moving feels very wrong.