New hrothgar hairstyles are really bad.

[SacraAnima]

Greetings, everyone.
As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading.

Hello and thank you for making your presence known here.
I'm sure it's obvious by now that the hairstyles provided in the 6.1 patch are not what players were expecting nor were they what we were told we would be getting. I respect that this is a large game and a lot of hard work and love gets put into it. I am grateful for all of it, however, this particular situation has generated a lot of disappointment and distrust within the community and thus it can be learned from. I'll offer my feedback and ask a few open questions for the dev team to consider.

My feedback:

-The quality of these hairstyles released in 6.1 are not indicative of a thoughtful and effortful execution of a feature that players were first told about 3 years ago. They do not demonstrate care in respecting base artistic aesthetic nor do they reflect care on the part of the development team. The choices of hairstyles alone demonstrate that no thought was given to whether or not they would actually look good on Hrothgars.

-The lack of communication over the past three years regarding Hrothgar hairstyles is staggering and is largely the cause of this whole situation. Asking for feedback now is slightly insulting after three years have gone by with just a handful of comments, maybe a one sentence bullet point on a Live Letter slideshow, and virtually no interaction with the community from the devs on this topic.

Had you been transparent with your decision making as the choices were being made, the community would have been able to tell you that your plan of execution is not at all what anyone actually wants. You could have announced that race specific hairstyles weren't happening anymore, you didn't and are now surprised that people are upset about not getting them. You could have announced that the only way to fit hairstyles onto Hroths is to remove their ears before you edited a single hairstyle, you didn't and are now surprised that Hrothgar players are obviously upset about a major feature of their race is being changed.

I personally feel that this whole situation could have been avoided if you, the dev team, would have communicated with us along the way so that we could have had the opportunity to let you know that removing our ears and giving us hairstyles that do not properly fit our faces (they even float off of our heads as Kelev has demonstrated) isn't what we've been asking for since the launch of Shadowbringers.

-I don't trust your reasonings as to why Hrothgar hairstyles are so difficult. Your team was able to sculpt and create 17 unique hairstyles for Male Viera alone. If you're able to warp gear meshes to fit a Lalafell and a Roe, then you can create unique hairstyles for Hrothgar and warp the meshes to fit each head, it's really only the 4th head that needs attention. Modders were able to restore ears to these hairstyles within 40 minutes of the patch going up. It's obvious you wanted to avoid clipping and your solution if far far worse than ears clipping through hair. There are a lot of inconstancies in what you, the devs, have told us over the years and my trust is pretty much gone regarding this topic.

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What I would like to see going forward:

-Create race specific hairstyles for Hrothgars, as was mentioned in Live Letter Part LIII

-Restore ears to the 6.1 hairstyles you released, accept that it will clip

-Allow all Hrothgar faces access to all race specific hairstyles, even those released in 5.0

-Be transparent and communicate during the process of adding new hair, maybe even get community artists involved through a design contest, there is no lack of passion in the community

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Questions for the Devs:

In the Letter from the Producer LIVE Part LIII Digest (08/29/2019), someone asked if Viera and Hrothgar were going to get new hairstyles. You replied:
A: We certainly plan on adding more, so please wait for future patches. However, it will still be race-specific, so there won’t be as many selections when compared to other races.

プロデューサーからの手紙 LIVE Part LIII ダイジェスト（2019/08/29）で、「ヴィエラやロスガルは新しいヘアスタイルになるのか」という質問がありました。という回答がありましたね。
A：確かに追加する予定ですので、今後のパッチをお待ちください。ただし、やはり種族固有のものになるので、他の種族と比較すると選択肢はそれほど多くはないでしょう。

When was the decision made to not create new race specific hairstyles and why didn't you announce it to the community?

新しい人種別のヘアスタイルを作らないというのはいつ決定されたのですか？

When was the decision made that removing the ears was the only viable solution and why didn't you announce it to the community ahead of time?

耳を取り外すことが唯一の現実的な解決策であるという判断はいつなされたのでしょうか。また、なぜそれを事前にコミュニティに発表しなかったのでしょうか。

Your team was able to create 17 new hairstyles for Male Viera alone, why is it now a monumental task to create new hairstyles for Hrothgar?

メンズビエラだけでも17種類のヘアスタイルを開発されているのに、なぜロスガルのヘアスタイルを作るのは難しいのでしょうか？

How have the last three years been used with regard to hairstyles for Hrothgar? Also, do you think more transparency in the process would have saved time had you asked for our input earlier?

ロズガルのヘアスタイルについて、この3年間はどのように使われていたのでしょうか。また、プロセスを透明化することで、もっと早く私たちの意見を聞いていれば、時間を短縮できたと思いますか？

Why were the earless hairstyles considered a solution? Are you trying to avoid clipping? The Hrothgar in Bozja are able to wear hairstyles outside of those locked to their faces. Why can't we?

なぜ耳なしヘアスタイルが解決策とされたのか？クリッピングを回避するためでしょうか？ボジャのロスガルは、顔に固定されている以外のヘアスタイルをすることができます。なぜ、私たちはできないのでしょうか？

You mentioned that the price to pay will be that the new race specific hairstyles will take time and will be fewer. Will this be a priority for the devs so that Hrothgar, who have been waiting for three years, don't have to wait another three?

その代償として、新しい種族固有のヘアスタイルは時間がかかり、数も少なくなるとおっしゃっていましたね。3年間待っていたロスガルがさらに3年待たされることがないよう、開発陣にとって優先順位の高いものになるのでしょうか？



(these questions are a repost from many pages ago, forgive me fellow Ear Defenders, I want the mods and hopefully the devs to think about these things)

[StriderShinryu]

-The lack of communication over the past three years regarding Hrothgar hairstyles is staggering and is largely the cause of this whole situation. Asking for feedback now is slightly insulting after three years have gone by with just a handful of comments, maybe a one sentence bullet point on a Live Letter slideshow, and virtually no interaction with the community from the devs on this topic.

This. So very much this. If there's one piece of feedback from this thread that I hope does make it up the line to Yoshida, it's this one right here. Many of the issues currently facing the game hinge on a near complete lack of communication. Live Letters and blog posts are great. They're extremely appreciated. But they are a one-way street. It has come to a point where some of the player base is, frankly, feeling taken for granted. We never know what feedback actually does reach the development team. We also never know, if it does, what form it takes when it's being relayed. Clearly issues such as this one, the healer engagement debate, the "streamlining" of job designs, etc. are crossing Yoshida's desk but it almost always feels like the message that's being sent is a watered down, sanitized, point form version of what the player base is really asking for and talking about. I don't put this on Yoshida himself as much as I put it on the almost completely non-existent community engagement team. As an example, this thread went over a hundred pages of essentially pure, complete negative perspective in only a handful of days, and the only community engagement response we received was a slightly prettied up version of a translation we already had thanks to fans already having done the work. That's just sad. And I can only hope that this isn't the last time we see Zhexos for another few months or years.

So, again, if there is one problem here it's not really even Hrothgar hair (though, don't mistake me, that is a big issue), it's a near complete lack of meaningful, two-way communication. No one is asking for the developers to design the game by committee, or by community. The design choices and decisions are yours to make. We just want actual respectful communication.

[ArtyTheHrothgar]

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been a lot of feedback surrounding Hrothgar and their hairstyles, we wanted to share a recent update from Yoshida during the recent patch notes reading. On the stream he discussed the specifications of Hrothgar and the difficulties regarding adding hairstyles for them.

Hello,

Thank you very much for your response. Here is my feedback.

As Hrothgar, I would like to see the priorities addressed in this order:

1. Keep the showing the ears on every hairstyle
2. Keep the hairstyle changing via aesthetician
3. Make all hrothgar racial hairstyles available for all faces
   I think the head structure needs to be redone so that the top and back are identical in all cases. Only the face should change from one to the other. The ears must be in the same place in every hrothgar head.
4. Either :
   NEW specific hairstyles for all hrothgars, and i don't mind if we get only 2 per expension. (And make the other head specific hairstyles for all hrothgar). (That's my favorite option)
   or adapt the existing hairstyles, i don't mind if we only get one by major patch, but, please, ask the players wich one they want (for exemple by making a poll every major patch release for the next one)

In my opinion, you can remove the 6.1 hairstyles to fit the priorities above.

Edit : I saw a lot of marvelous sketches for hrothgar hairstyles from other OF threads, if you choose to create specific new hairstyles, using them might be a good option.

Thank you !

[Minali]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your response. Here is my feedback.

As Hrothgar, I would like to see the priorities addressed in this order:

1. Keep the showing the ears on every hairstyle
2. Keep the hairstyle changing via fantasia
3. Make all hrothgar racial hairstyles available for all faces
   I think the head structure needs to be redone so that the top and back are identical in all cases. Only the face should change from one to the other. The ears must be in the same place in every hrothgar head.
4. Either :
   NEW specific hairstyles for all hrothgars, and i don't mind if we get only 2 per expension. (And make the other head specific hairstyles for all hrothgar). (That's my favorite option)
   or adapt the existing hairstyles, i don't mind if we only get one by major patch, but, please, ask the players wich one they want (for exemple by making a poll every major patch release for the next one)

In my opinion, you can remove the 6.1 hairstyles to fit the priorities above.

Edit : I saw a lot of marvelous sketches for hrothgar hairstyles from other OF threads, if you choose to create specific new hairstyles, using them might be a good option.

Thank you !

I am surprised to see anyone voting in favour for paying real world money for a feature that every non-Hrothgar player in this game gets for free. Why would you consider keeping Hrothgar hairstyle changes a rich person thing as a good feature?

[Denji]

I am surprised to see anyone voting in favour for paying real world money for a feature that every non-Hrothgar player in this game gets for free. Why would you consider keeping Hrothgar hairstyle changes a rich person thing as a good feature?

same reason why people keep defending square for free.

weird nerds who worship companies they love instead of realizing that they're the ones paying them already and not vice-versa.

possibly also already also bought a ton of fantas in the past and are student loaning themselves. 'i paid for it so you guys have to, too!' that or just desperate bargaining a la five stages of grief.

either way they are not going to be able to undo the aesthetician changes without causing a literal riot now.

[Vahlnir]

same reason why people keep defending square for free.

weird nerds who worship companies they love instead of realizing that they're the ones paying them already and not vice-versa.

possibly also already also bought a ton of fantas in the past and are student loaning themselves. 'i paid for it so you guys have to, too!' that or just desperate bargaining a la five stages of grief.

either way they are not going to be able to undo the aesthetician changes without causing a literal riot now.

As someone who has been a fairly stalwart defender of Yoshi P over the years, it was a tough pill to swallow seeing how he has handled this issue among other things lately. Honestly, there's no going back for me now. The illusion is shattered. Sadly, that's all it has been for a while now. An illusion.

[ArtyTheHrothgar]

I am surprised to see anyone voting in favour for paying real world money for a feature that every non-Hrothgar player in this game gets for free. Why would you consider keeping Hrothgar hairstyle changes a rich person thing as a good feature?

Arg.. I meant Aesthetician, not fantasia >_<

As Hrothgar, I would like to see the priorities addressed in this order:

1. Keep the showing the ears on every hairstyle
2. Keep the hairstyle changing via aesthetician
3. Make all hrothgar racial hairstyles available for all faces
   I think the head structure needs to be redone so that the top and back are identical in all cases. Only the face should change from one to the other. The ears must be in the same place in every hrothgar head.
4. Either :
   NEW specific hairstyles for all hrothgars, and i don't mind if we get only 2 per expension. (And make the other head specific hairstyles for all hrothgar). (That's my favorite option)
   or adapt the existing hairstyles, i don't mind if we only get one by major patch, but, please, ask the players wich one they want (for exemple by making a poll every major patch release for the next one)

[Minali]

Arg.. I meant Aesthetician, not fantasia >_<

Thanks for clearing that up. ^^

[DaddyHrothgar]

Hello,

Thank you very much for your response. Here is my feedback.

As Hrothgar, I would like to see the priorities addressed in this order:

1. Keep the showing the ears on every hairstyle
2. Keep the hairstyle changing via fantasia
3. Make all hrothgar racial hairstyles available for all faces
   I think the head structure needs to be redone so that the top and back are identical in all cases. Only the face should change from one to the other. The ears must be in the same place in every hrothgar head.
4. Either :
   NEW specific hairstyles for all hrothgars, and i don't mind if we get only 2 per expension. (And make the other head specific hairstyles for all hrothgar). (That's my favorite option)
   or adapt the existing hairstyles, i don't mind if we only get one by major patch, but, please, ask the players wich one they want (for exemple by making a poll every major patch release for the next one)

In my opinion, you can remove the 6.1 hairstyles to fit the priorities above.

Edit : I saw a lot of marvelous sketches for hrothgar hairstyles from other OF threads, if you choose to create specific new hairstyles, using them might be a good option.

Thank you !

Why would you advocate one group of players paying money to change aesthetics, while the rest of them get to do it for free? If you want to give SE your money, you can do it on your own accord, don't ask for everyone else to as well.

[Kelev]

Why would you advocate one group of players paying money to change aesthetics, while the rest of them get to do it for free? If you want to give SE your money, you can do it on your own accord, don't ask for everyone else to as well.

Given the general player-friendly/standardization drive of the rest of the post, I don't know if the "keep it fantasia" isn't a typo. I, too, have said such things before coffee...