so why the devs never use 90% of the content for end game?

[Hasrat]

why not udgust them for the cornet end game lvl and make the tome grind a more fun thing where you don't just run the same 3 dungeons for half a year.

Because this amounts to "Just do more work." Adjusting old content to scale isn't something that just gets done overnight. The work required to accomplish this would 1) mean that you're sacrificing new content for scaled old content, and 2) have to be re-adjusted every patch to continue to scale with growing stats.

[DPZ2]

They would do well to look at how the likes of WoW, ESO and Lost Ark make use of their open worlds. Encouraging players to explore and uncover hidden secrets isn't a bad thing and helps make FFXIV's zones have more relevance beyond occasional MSQ quests and gathering nodes.

I don't know ... exploration in the MMOs you've mentioned is pretty, um, down on the list of things to do. And if it has some rewards to make it worth doing, there are add-ons (WoW/ESO) to tell you exactly where to go, or you can look it up on wowhead or the ESO/Lost Ark equivalents, so it's not really "exploration". It's making a list and checking it twice.

I'm assuming Theodric finished the sightseeing log without consulting one of the many websites that list every one of them.

[Kleeya]

They would do well to look at how the likes of WoW, ESO and Lost Ark make use of their open worlds. Encouraging players to explore and uncover hidden secrets isn't a bad thing and helps make FFXIV's zones have more relevance beyond occasional MSQ quests and gathering nodes.

Yes, like the blue mage. With this job every player did thoroughly rediscover every little details of the overworld, going from some mobs to another, thinking with excitement "how come i did never see this place even existed ?" and "i wonder what this mob attacks are, maybe i will learn a good skill ?".

Just joking, everyone did watch at some guide to get rid of "exploration" and "hidden secrets" as fast as possible.

[Bad_Luck]

Congrats on completing the entire game I guess.

[KizuyaKatogami]

I don't know ... exploration in the MMOs you've mentioned is pretty, um, down on the list of things to do. And if it has some rewards to make it worth doing, there are add-ons (WoW/ESO) to tell you exactly where to go, or you can look it up on wowhead or the ESO/Lost Ark equivalents, so it's not really "exploration". It's making a list and checking it twice.

I'm assuming Theodric finished the sightseeing log without consulting one of the many websites that list every one of them.

It’s weird to write it off as not exploration just because you can look it up. There’s still dungeons you can go and explore. People who don’t like overworld exploring can look it up cool, but the option is at least there for people who want to explore and actually have things to explore, whereas that is severely missing from 14. I guess savage and ultimate raiding isn’t really raiding since there’s addons that can do everything for you and buyable clears exist?

[SamsaraTrickstar]

Because this amounts to "Just do more work." Adjusting old content to scale isn't something that just gets done overnight. The work required to accomplish this would 1) mean that you're sacrificing new content for scaled old content, and 2) have to be re-adjusted every patch to continue to scale with growing stats.

the game is out for how much years? do it over time no one say give it to me now. but do it.

Yes, like the blue mage. With this job every player did thoroughly rediscover every little details of the overworld, going from some mobs to another, thinking with excitement "how come i did never see this place even existed ?" and "i wonder what this mob attacks are, maybe i will learn a good skill ?".

Just joking, everyone did watch at some guide to get rid of "exploration" and "hidden secrets" as fast as possible.

so because some people "cheat" we cant have nice things?

[Kleeya]

so because some people "cheat" we cant have nice things?

The problem is that we are not talking of "cheating" in the way it is usually meant, like only 2% of players doing it while the other 98% don't. But the other way around, 98% doing it and 2% not.

The massive usage of guides and the speed at which the new information is shared between players nowadays has lead to "exploration" and "hidden secrets" being hugely problematic to implement in a mmo when it comes to trying to keep the fun of discovering things by yourself intact.

Let's take again the blue mage example. When this job was new i was like "let's try to find things myself !", but the fun i was expecting did quickly disappear because of :

- having to disable my FC chat where too much people were telling what to do ;
- same with discussion Linkshells ;
- not being able to open the PF anymore to avoid to be spoiled by "this skill on this mob" partys ;
- all that for in the end being spoiled anyway when seeing flocks of players flying to the same place and farming the same mob.

Not really an enjoyable experience.

[SamsaraTrickstar]

The problem is that we are not talking of "cheating" in the way it is usually meant, like only 2% of players doing it while the other 98% don't. But the other way around, 98% doing it and 2% not.

The massive usage of guides and the speed at which the new information is shared between players nowadays has lead to "exploration" and "hidden secrets" being hugely problematic to implement in a mmo when it comes to trying to keep the fun of discovering things by yourself intact.

Let's take again the blue mage example. When this job was new i was like "let's try to find things myself !", but the fun i was expecting did quickly disappear because of :

- having to disable my FC chat where too much people were telling what to do ;
- same with discussion Linkshells ;
- not being able to open the PF anymore to avoid to be spoiled by "this skill on this mob" partys ;
- all that for in the end being spoiled anyway when seeing flocks of players flying to the same place and farming the same mob.

Not really an enjoyable experience.

so why got any mechanics in any content at all if people just look it up. make each boss stand in place doing dps and the players standing in place doing dps. why all the moving around ? looks fun? if some want to not play the game let them. but giver to the one that do want to PLAY A GAME. like look at gw2 , there guides but at the same time lots of exploration to do.

[Theodric]

I don't know ... exploration in the MMOs you've mentioned is pretty, um, down on the list of things to do. And if it has some rewards to make it worth doing, there are add-ons (WoW/ESO) to tell you exactly where to go, or you can look it up on wowhead or the ESO/Lost Ark equivalents, so it's not really "exploration". It's making a list and checking it twice.

I'm assuming Theodric finished the sightseeing log without consulting one of the many websites that list every one of them.

Why does it matter if some people resort to a guide to find out how to do something? How is that any different to people choosing to look at a guide before stepping into a raid?

A large part of the appeal of fantasy settings resides in exploration and immersion. FFXIV struggles immensely with that by virtue of having very little reason to engage with the open world.

Not everybody makes use of a guide - nor is all open world content even based around using one. See the way in which a player can pick a direction and run in ESO and find treasure chests, thieves troves and skyshards amongst other things.

One of my favourite quests in ARR was hidden - involving handing over an item to an NPC in exchange for a minion. I stumbled across it by chance and to my knowledge there's only been one other quest like it since - in Il Mheg.

Equally, I had a lot of fun back when I played WoW and stumbled across hidden quests through item drops or delving into hidden cave entrances. Perhaps it would be best for some not to assume how others play, especially if they're advocating for something they're actively passionate about.

[Dzian]

They TRY to do this with the FATE Gemstones, Hunts, and Treasure Maps, but that ends up only helping a little. I agree with you and would love if they figured something out to make FATEs more attractive.

Fates are boring because they're lifeless and they suck. They don't change or impact the world in anyway at all. Oh hey mobs are attacking a settlement. Kill them all or ignore them it makes no difference.

Treasure maps kinda meh. When the big rewards are tied into instances content like canals, aquopolis or others. It's hardly open world content at all.

It’s weird to write it off as not exploration just because you can look it up. There’s still dungeons you can go and explore. People who don’t like overworld exploring can look it up cool, but the option is at least there for people who want to explore and actually have things to explore, whereas that is severely missing from 14. I guess savage and ultimate raiding isn’t really raiding since there’s addons that can do everything for you and buyable clears exist?

Can you though? All those dungeons and things are instances content disconnected from the open world.

I mean how cool would it be if you could actually go mining in the copper bell mines or something like that?

Could be in a group of players running through to kill a boss and spot random people just mining away as you make your way through..

This used to be one of my favorite things about XI in its day. Nearly everything was open world and it made the world so alive. Never knew what you'd see as you went from place to place.. could be running through a zone and come across people in an exp party or fighting a boss that you might never have seen before. Or hunting a notorious monster for a strong piece of gear.. the world was always full of People.

14 by comparison is a barren wasteland. I might occasionally spot someone on the way to the same gathering node I am but thats usually it. If I'm really lucky I might see an s rank being fought. But they die in 30 seconds so that's hardly an interesting fight to watch...