6.1 Samurai

[VentVanitas]

Senei would serve as a better candidate for deletion. Guren worked just fine in its place in Stormblood so Senei's addition is entirely superfluous.

[Leemon]

Can we make the title of this thread so it reflects out concern and possibly make a Megathread? Since people are starting to voice their opinion but it.'s gonna be more meaningful for the devs if they see our love for the skill/animation of Kaiten. If you're a true SAM main, you know you love that sound and that twirl. Like every one else already said here, Shoha II and Guren needs to be rid off first. Those are bad design and poster child of button bloat. The fact is a lot of SAM love pressing Kaiten more than people pressing Shoha II or Guren.

[ShanaShirayuki]

Thought I should reply here and echo the majority of thoughts and opinions in this thread. I saw this in the XIV subreddit and do know that devs lurk there as well as here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nship/i30oois/

The philosophy behind removing Kaiten does not make sense considering the devs have designed fights around synergizing raid buffs and managing said buff windows during difficult mechanics such as in the current Savage tier. As others have mentioned, there are two other prime candidates for consolidation in regards to combating button bloat: Shoha II into Shoha and Guren into Senei.

Such changes would have little to no impact on the class' core mechanic and identity in comparison to Kaiten, nor would they create anti-synergy with classes such as DNC's Devilment. Please devs, do not go through with these changes, or at the very least revert them in a hotfix once 6.1 drops.

And for those doubting that the majority of SAM players are upset about this, there are similar sentiments all throughout The Balance Discord as well as here and the subreddit. Just two cents from a SAM main.

[Lilyth]

I also would like to voice my opinion that Kaiten is a very fun skill to use and there are several other, more elegant, ways to deal with button bloat.

Don't just take iconic skills away. That's not cool.

[Silhart]

Created a forum account to lend my support to OP. Please don't take away Kaiten. The suggestions made by people in this thread are good ways to address button bloat without negatively impacting the feel of the class. I wish the devs would consider consolidating the buttons mentioned in OP before taking away a button that many people obviously enjoy.

And to the people saying it wasn't adding anything to SAM's gameplay & that it had no skill expression... you realize the same could be said about nearly everything in this game? Why do we have weaponskill combos if the buttons are pressed in the exact same way every time? Why have damaging oGCDs when you have no other option but to use them off CD? DoTs, gauges - it's all just pointless busywork with zero skill expression, so we'd lose nothing by doing away with them, right? Wrong. Skill expression or not, the tactile feel of having different buttons to press is important for class enjoyment, and messing with that is going to have direct consequences on people's fun. That simple fact can't be ignored, because at the end of the day, what is the #1 thing people look for when choosing what class they want to play?

Hint: it's a 3 letter word beginning with F.

[Faulko]

I’m not touching my SAM once this change goes through. This has to be the absolute dumbest decision they’ve made for samurai. I can’t imagine this change remains permanent, hopefully enough Samurai will voice their opinions and it’s reverted. However this whole situation leaves me ever more worried that the devs have literally zero clue how to manage the classes without turning them all into the exact same homogenized rotation as everyone else.

[ForteNightshade]

I’m not touching my SAM once this change goes through. This has to be the absolute dumbest decision they’ve made for samurai. I can’t imagine this change remains permanent, hopefully enough Samurai will voice their opinions and it’s reverted. However this whole situation leaves me ever more worried that the devs have literally zero clue how to manage the classes without turning them all into the exact same homogenized rotation as everyone else.

Unfortunately, this feels inline with their pursuit for the most basic of job design, where literally anyone can pick up the job and play it without the slightest bit of thought. If this change does stick, I suspect Life Surge isn't long for this world despite it getting two charges just this expansion. Hell, I'm beginning to wonder if buffs like Battle Litany, Battle Voice and Chain survive much longer since their solution to complaints about synergy seem to be "delete it!!!"

[Rilifane]

Please keep Kaiten.
If they really want to reduce button bloat, I'm in favour of merging some skills that are either mutually exclusive because they can only be cast one after another or because one is for single target and one is for aoe.
Shoha I & Shoha II, Guren & Senei, Iaijutsu & Tsubame, Ikishoten & Ogi Namikiri would all make sense to merge with Iaijutsu and Tsubame not even losing us any fancy animations some people may like.
Kaiten added a small amount of Kenki management. It wasn't huge but it was there and if you have an AST in your group it added even more nuance because dumping as many Shinten as possible in a card buff without losing Kaiten for finisher moves requires a bit of attention. It flowed well with the rotation and I found it a fun ability (much more than pure Shinten spam). Animation and sound is a bonus point for me.
But most of all I don't look forward to Shinten spam as the only spender.
Bunshin doesn't require a huge thought process either but it is something to keep track of over just using Bhava when you're about to cap.

[Chopstix]

+1

DO NOT REMOVE KAITEN. It is an awesome skill. As OP pointed out there r many, many, many much better candidates to be targeted for removal as button bloat. Also, y does iaijutsu not turn into kaeshi?

[Gemina]

Chiming in late, but I knew that the removal of Seigan was the first sign of the decline with SAM. A very subtle ember in the wind to set the job ablaze. It was fun while it lasted, but when a job plays so well to the point that it doesn't need much, the next direction the devs tend to take a job in this position is to eff it up entirely. 6.1 SAM is only going further in this direction.

Ah well. This is exactly why I play multiple jobs.