Thread: 6.1 Samurai

Originally Posted by Kazimere

There is no management of kenki, and there hasn’t been for quite some time. Don’t even try to prop that up. It buffed weapon skillls, and the only ones worth buffing over using a shinten were the Iajutsue. Effectively just making the skill something you weaved in every 8th GCD, or for when you needed to bana.

It was a cool concept that ultimately failed to implement like it needed to, imo. All it’s really got going for it is that it’s got a cool animation.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Uh, if you didn't pay attention in your rotation you could absolutely get into a scenario where you wouldn't have enough kenki to re-apply kaiten to higanbana. Just because there isn't a lot of management doesn't mean there eas none at all. Removing kaiten however does effectively remove kenki management completely.

I mean, how much attention needs to be paid? Every combo gives you enough for a kaiten. There is no management when that is the case.

I understand what you are saying, and I think that was the intended concept. It just didn’t pan out that way on implementation.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

I mean, how much attention needs to be paid? Every combo gives you enough for a kaiten. There is no management when that is the case.

I understand what you are saying, and I think that was the intended concept. It just didn’t pan out that way on implementation.

I still mess up sometimes when I'm not paying attention, and I played sam for 3+ years and have gotten good parses and such. Also kenki math is fun.

I've never posted on the forums before, but I registered today in the hopes of having the developers reconsider the changes they are going to make to Samurai in 6.1

I'll start with the removal of Kaiten which they announced their reason of getting rid of it was for "button bloat". If button bloat was truly the reason, then why didn't the development team decide to not consolidate the three other abilities such as Shoha/Shoha II, Guren/Senei, and Ikishoten/Ogi Namikiri. Consolidating any of those 3 would've helped with that issue with zero change in the gameplay and feel of Samurai. By removing kaiten, you're removing the bit of depth of kenki management there was that would keep the player engaged in the job. Now you can just zone out and disregard how much kenki you have for kaiten in your burst windows (even and odd) which is considerably more boring to me. The other part is the fantasy feel of the job. There is something rewarding about slowly building up sens, do a winding up/power up move into your big hitters. To me, it's a pretty iconic part of the job. I definitely feel like the negatives of removing kaiten far outweighs that of consolidating the other skills.

The second I'll talk about is the auto crits on Midares and Ogi Namikiri. I can understand that Samurai could feel like a feast or famine class but I think the danger of having auto crits is removing the synergy it has with certain raid buffs such as DRG's battle litany, SCH's chain stratgem, and DNC's devilment. If I remembered correctly, part of the reason why Square Enix pushed for 2 min windows on all class was for synergy across all jobs but this kind of goes against that philosophy as now Samurai doesn't synergize as well with the 3 previously mentioned job. Instead, maybe they could separate Midare into two separate hits (i.e. Ninja's Dream within a Dream) to help out with damage variance or shift some of the power from the big attacks into some of the smaller weaponskills like Gekko/Kasha (which are considerably still used in raid buffs a bit).

Anyways those are my thoughts. I do hope that development team listens to the feedback on the changes and offer a bit more explanation on their reasoning for those changes. Thanks.

Everyone is upset about them removing a button, but no one is thinking about how SAM won’t be let into PFs because they have an auto crit and SCH, DRG, DNC, and BRD won’t want to play with them just like they don’t want WAR to play with them uwu

Originally Posted by EllieDaCat

Everyone is upset about them removing a button, but no one is thinking about how SAM won’t be let into PFs because they have an auto crit and SCH, DRG, DNC, and BRD won’t want to play with them just like they don’t want WAR to play with them uwu

Well DNC doesn’t care about WAR. And also MCH with SCH and DRG.

Originally Posted by SieyaM

So maybe I am misreading this OP but it appears that the primary reason they want to keep this skill is because it is flashy and has a good sound effect, which is nice and all but not a reason to keep it.

They already mention why it's bad from a gameplay standpoint, but keeping the skill because it plays well into the fantasy feel of the Samurai with its animation is an absolutely valid reason to keep it. People will absolutely pick up a class for the fantasy feel of the job instead of gameplay. As OP mentioned as well, the reason the development team removed the skill was for button bloat, which if button bloat was really the issue, then why didn't they address Shoha/Shoha II, Guren/Senei, and/or Ikishoten/Ogi Namikiri. I feel the negatives of removing kaiten outweigh the consolidation of those three set of skills.

Originally Posted by Luin

Should we upgrade Shoha1 into Shoha2?

Should we combine Senei and Guren?

Should we combine Shinten and Kyuten?

This bothers me on several levels. No. The game is already braindead enough in dungeons without having your AoE be the same thing as your ST. Stoppit. This is the sort of dumb thing a hardcore raider would say because 90 percent of the content they engage with are boss fights and the other 10 percent is spent rushing players through dungeons to grind dailies. If the way you play the game means that the ST/AoE distinction is "button bloat", just take them off your hotbars, you horribly unfun person.

Originally Posted by MoonMoon97

The second I'll talk about is the auto crits on Midares and Ogi Namikiri. I can understand that Samurai could feel like a feast or famine class but I think the danger of having auto crits is removing the synergy it has with certain raid buffs such as DRG's battle litany, SCH's chain stratgem, and DNC's devilment. If I remembered correctly, part of the reason why Square Enix pushed for 2 min windows on all class was for synergy across all jobs but this kind of goes against that philosophy as now Samurai doesn't synergize as well with the 3 previously mentioned job. Instead, maybe they could separate Midare into two separate hits (i.e. Ninja's Dream within a Dream) to help out with damage variance or shift some of the power from the big attacks into some of the smaller weaponskills like Gekko/Kasha (which are considerably still used in raid buffs a bit).

This is also a genuine topic of concern and identifies a massive hole in their design philosophy. Other things need to change for this SAM change to even begin making sense. The JP forums are talking about this fact at length. I just hope that the developers elected to leave out raid buff changes until actual patch notes. And for anybody out there who has a strong opinion about crit RNG, it doesn't matter what your opinion is about crit RNG on the job - these changes just introduce a different, more anti-synergistic problem that WAR and MCH have had to deal with for a long time.