Thread: 6.1 Samurai

Originally Posted by RarefiedPepe

I don't fully understand why kaiten has to be removed in the name of action bloat when so many other actions could be modified to reduce the perceived action bloat that exists, especially one so ingrained into me as a player. Samurai gets kaiten at 52 and is just told, "hey, use this for a really long time." It feels like a good wind-up before a hard hit and that really helps me enjoy the job. Every time I get level synced down I acutely notice the lack of kaiten because it just makes fights feel so much less fun, and I'm afraid that same feeling will carry over into 6.1.

save my boi kaiten

A wind up before a hard hit is the perfect explanation lol.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

It’s a button that you all want to keep cause of its animation and that’s it. That’s button bloat.

Its not just about the animation. Its the feeling of the mechanic. Its simply fun to use and its gonna feel odd without it.

That said, button bloat is nonsense. I'll never agree that this game has button bloat, especially now a days with jobs having significantly less actions compared to heavensward days.

To each their own. 32 buttons is a lot, especially when half of them are just copies of ST versions in AoE format. Pushing a lot of buttons for the sake of pushing buttons isn’t particularly engaging. It’s tedious.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

To each their own. 32 buttons is a lot, especially when half of them are just copies of ST versions in AoE format. Pushing a lot of buttons for the sake of pushing buttons isn’t particularly engaging. It’s tedious.

SO COMPRESS THOSE BUTTONS so that they don't have separate AOE and single target buttons, especially for the long cooldown ones. In fact that was the button bloat people actually whined about. Not a single fucking button in the form of Kaiten.

I didn’t like kaiten. So, there is one complaint.

I am a little sad for the loss of Kaiten because now, there's no real "managing" our Kenki. Just spam Shinten/Kyuten. Guren and Senei are in sync with Ikishoten, so you don't have to manage them.

It wasn't much, the idea that "gotta save 20 for my next Iaijutsu," but it was there. I liked that.

If button bloat is such a concern, why not start reworking combos the same way GBN's Gnashing Fang combo got reworked: a single hotbar slot that cycles to the next ability as you go.

For Sam, this wouldn't be hard. Their single target combos become three buttons, all starting on Hakaze. These would be Yukikaze combo, Gekko combo, and Kashi combo. The AoE combos become two buttons, both starting with Fuga/Fuko: the Mangetsu combo, and the Oka combo.

With that, we just reduced 9 hotbar slots to 5 hotbar slots. Give Shoha a diminished AoE component and remove Shoha II; give Senei a diminished AoE component and delete Guren. That's 2 more slots saved.

We don't need to get rid of Kaiten, which, admittedly, only served to give a bit more depth to our Kenki management, but it felt like the right amount of depth! Now I feel like Kenki management is going to feel very mindless.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

To each their own. 32 buttons is a lot, especially when half of them are just copies of ST versions in AoE format. Pushing a lot of buttons for the sake of pushing buttons isn’t particularly engaging. It’s tedious.

32 isn't a lot and kaiten served two purposes. Managing your kenki and buffing your attacks, so it wasn't just a button for the sake of a button.

That said. If we "had" to merge skills to get rid of "bloat" then merging ogi into ishikoten would make WAY more sense than removing kaiten considering you can't even use ogi without popping ishi. Same with Shoha, guren and senei. They could all just be singular buttons that also do aoe attacks that do reduced potency with each enemy it hits. Shoha 2 and guren are basically only used in dungeons so I wouldn't be as remised about losing buttons on skills I didn't use often anyways compared to something like kaiten that is multi-purposed and imbedded pretty heavily to the original design.

All of this goes back to the reality that I believe bloat had nothing to do with kaiten. They made midare and ogi auto crit which means they have to adjust potencies and they simply didn't want to deal with the additional math to balance them with kaiten boosting those skills.

There is no management of kenki, and there hasn’t been for quite some time. Don’t even try to prop that up. It buffed weapon skillls, and the only ones worth buffing over using a shinten were the Iajutsue. Effectively just making the skill something you weaved in every 8th GCD, or for when you needed to bana.

It was a cool concept that ultimately failed to implement like it needed to, imo. All it’s really got going for it is that it’s got a cool animation.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

There is no management of kenki, and there hasn’t been for quite some time. Don’t even try to prop that up. It buffed weapon skillls, and the only ones worth buffing over using a shinten were the Iajutsue. Effectively just making the skill something you weaved in every 8th GCD, or for when you needed to bana.

It was a cool concept that ultimately failed to implement like it needed to, imo. All it’s really got going for it is that it’s got a cool animation.

I agree with the rest of your post.

Uh, if you didn't pay attention in your rotation you could absolutely get into a scenario where you wouldn't have enough kenki to re-apply kaiten to higanbana. Just because there isn't a lot of management doesn't mean there eas none at all. Removing kaiten however does effectively remove kenki management completely.

I mean, how much attention needs to be paid? Every combo gives you enough for a kaiten. There is no management when that is the case.

I understand what you are saying, and I think that was the intended concept. It just didn’t pan out that way on implementation.

Originally Posted by Kazimere

I mean, how much attention needs to be paid? Every combo gives you enough for a kaiten. There is no management when that is the case.

I understand what you are saying, and I think that was the intended concept. It just didn’t pan out that way on implementation.

I still mess up sometimes when I'm not paying attention, and I played sam for 3+ years and have gotten good parses and such. Also kenki math is fun.