6.1 Samurai

**Quor** · 04-02-2022 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by SieyaM

So maybe I am misreading this OP but it appears that the primary reason they want to keep this skill is because it is flashy and has a good sound effect, which is nice and all but not a reason to keep it.

In short, yes, you are misreading it. The animation is cool, don't get me wrong, but the main purpose behind Kaiten is as a skill-expresser. It's not a major skill-expresser, but there is a big difference between no Kaiten usage, good Kaiten usage and optimum Kaiten usage. Ignore the people saying that you just use it right before an Iaijutsu; while that's true a lot of the time it isn't always true, especially in high-end raiding of savage/EX/ultimate stuff, where you might need to hold your Iaijutsu for 1-2 GCD's before you use Kaiten due to needing to avoid a mechanic.

It's one of those things that takes some work to get used too but once you've done it enough (which is really what the 52-62 leveling process teaches) then it becomes second nature. Failing it means a loss of damage while doing it correctly means a big gain. It's not "hard" per se to do it correctly but it *is* hard to do it correctly 100% of the time. That's the beauty of Kaiten. It's a skill that allowed you to express mastery of a fight, resource management and rotation all in one. With this change Kenki is all but entirely de-valued. As other have said, just grant us four charges of Shinten/Kyuten on a 15s CD and remove Kenki outright. Remove the Kenki costs for everything else (because they all have CD's that limit their use anyway) and just be done with that aspect of SAM. The job will be dumbed down to all hell but we already have one foot in the door so why not go whole hog.

**Edweena** · 04-02-2022 07:42 AM

Removing Kaiten feels like a 7.0 change, right now we don't have anything to replace it so uhm yeah... no ty

+1 to the ideas about Shoha 2 replacing Shoha 1 and merging both of the Hissatu abilities into 1 CD.
That cuts off 2 buttons we use far less than Kaiten (and with far less involved thought) so please bring back Kaiten!

**Kazimere** · 04-02-2022 07:46 AM

Shinten, Kyoten, Senei, Gurein, Shoha 1 and 2 could all be combined to be a bigger ST hit with fall off. There is no reason for them to be separate buttons.

**KakoSol** · 04-02-2022 07:53 AM

There's not really much I can say that hasn't already been said. So I'll just leave this post as a show of support. Please FF14 developers don't do these changes.

**Kazimere** · 04-02-2022 07:56 AM

You’re just gonna replace kaiten with a shinten. I don’t see the problem. You’re acting as if there was a thought process to it. There never was. Gotta Iaijutus? Kaiten right before it. Don’t? Shinten.

You’re just wanting a button for the sake of having a button.

**Kazimere** · 04-02-2022 07:59 AM

You’re literally just saying that you’re gonna have to ho,d your window sometimes. Everyone has to do that and strategies are formed around it. Not to mention, the current design is to have mechanics that require movement happening right as these windows come up, so….

**Amh_Wilzuun** · 04-02-2022 08:11 AM

If the devs have any sense they’ll listen to the people in this forum, and the Japanese players who are also reportedly complaining on not removing kaiten, people who actually like this job and are passionate about it, rather than the one or two people defending the changes who don’t seem to understand what makes the job such a popular and enjoyable pick.

**baklava151** · 04-02-2022 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kazimere

You’re just gonna replace kaiten with a shinten. I don’t see the problem. You’re acting as if there was a thought process to it. There never was. Gotta Iaijutus? Kaiten right before it. Don’t? Shinten.

You’re just wanting a button for the sake of having a button.

There's no thought process to Shinten either, you just hit it as soon as you get 25 gauge. Why not remove that and Kyuten? There's no thought process to Shoha, you just hit it as soon as you get 3 stacks of Meditation. Why not remove Shoha and Shoha II? There's no thought process to Guren and Senei, you just hit them as soon as they're off CD and you have 25 gauge. Why not remove them?

**Stasya** · 04-02-2022 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by Kazimere

You’re just gonna replace kaiten with a shinten. I don’t see the problem. You’re acting as if there was a thought process to it. There never was. Gotta Iaijutus? Kaiten right before it. Don’t? Shinten.

You’re just wanting a button for the sake of having a button.

Lets get real, if you use any abilities as SAM and don't calculate complex integrals or very hard real integrals where you have to go into complex numbers zone and use limits then there is no thought process of playing SAM. Why have any buttons if you can auto attack.

**Edweena** · 04-02-2022 08:48 AM

Kaiten adds a thought process to kenki management, otherwise without it we'll just spam Shinten between every odd gcd and forget about it like Fan Dance III on Dancer.
(If you press Fan Dance 1 or 2 immediately press 3 after to double weave the ability even if it didn't proc, it's just muscle memory and offers no downsides to not getting into the habit)
YOU NEED enough Kenki to buff your necessary weaponskills, as I've been in places where I've spent too much on Shinten and didn't have enough to spend on a Kaiten for my Iaijutsu, suffering as a result of not thinking enough about my usage.
That's already more thought than choosing between Shoha 1 or 2, or either Hissatu ability because there is or is not more than 1 target.

You could even turn off your kenki bar all together as the Hissatu abilities get enough kenki for use from Ishikoten, an abilitiy that already lines up and can kind of be used in the same gcd if you double weave it
Please keep Kaiten! Otherwise this change could literally mean I don't have to keep track of kenki on screeen anymore LOL (aside from shoha being attached to the bar but the icon for shoha would just light up at 3 charges ANYWAY)

Thread: 6.1 Samurai

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