If we must have the lottery please let us withdraw entries and try another plot

[LunaFancy]

It's no secret that I have no love for the concept of the lottery, but since it appears an inevitability, I think we might do better put aside our pro/con arguments and unite under the banner of trying to make it as fair as possible for all of us, once it gets here.

Having examined my (albeit many) objections to the implementation of it I feel that my biggest complaint is being locked into my first choice no matter how many others throw their lott in on that specific plot- even if there is the same plot three wards down with no entries. Remember that I am on materia and we will have an entire data centre released under the lottery so this is a very real issue.

I would think that in the interest of true fairness, individuals should be free to withdraw their bid and place a bid on another plot should they change their mind. After all in the [much maligned] FCFS model if one did not get their first choice, they were free to skip to a subdivision/other ward and try again there. This is how I got my FC a large back on Coeurl during a fresh ward release and is an option that I feel the lottery should NOT remove from the player base.

If you can only place one entry at a time, it is only reasonable to expect that you can withdraw your entry and put it elsewhere if you see that your chances are slim. Far better to have the worst Goblet small for the FC than no house at all and be locked out of workshops altogether. As the model stands our single entry is locked into the first plot, I can see this causing issues with people waiting until the very last minute in order to avoid lotting on houses with many entries and that is hardly going to be helpful.

Far better to allow people to change their minds and therefore create a better balance of entries over the time of the entry period.

I am also concerned with FCs having multiple entries, surely this creates an unfair advantage to FCs with many wealthy players over the FC who has scraped together enough for a shot at a large. If the purpose of the lottery is to level the playing field, then actually level the playing field for all.

One entry per person and one entry per FC should be the standard, then it really is fair for all. (As fair as RNG hell can be for anyone, that is.)

Let's set aside our differences on the concept as a whole and unite in an effort to call for tweaks to the proposed system that actually do allow us all a truly equal shot while we still have a chance to affect change.

[Eraden]

I would think that in the interest of true fairness, individuals should be free to withdraw their bid and place a bid on another plot should they change their mind. After all in the [much maligned] FCFS model if one did not get their first choice, they were free to skip to a subdivision/other ward and try again there. This is how I got my FC a large back on Coeurl during a fresh ward release and is an option that I feel the lottery should NOT remove from the player base.

If you can only place one entry at a time, it is only reasonable to expect that you can withdraw your entry and put it elsewhere if you see that your chances are slim. Far better to have the worst Goblet small for the FC than no house at all and be locked out of workshops altogether. As the model stands our single entry is locked into the first plot, I can see this causing issues with people waiting until the very last minute in order to avoid lotting on houses with many entries and that is hardly going to be helpful.

Far better to allow people to change their minds and therefore create a better balance of entries over the time of the entry period.

I am also concerned with FCs having multiple entries, surely this creates an unfair advantage to FCs with many wealthy players over the FC who has scraped together enough for a shot at a large. If the purpose of the lottery is to level the playing field, then actually level the playing field for all.

One entry per person and one entry per FC should be the standard, then it really is fair for all. (As fair as RNG hell can be for anyone, that is.)

Let's set aside our differences on the concept as a whole and unite in an effort to call for tweaks to the proposed system that actually do allow us all a truly equal shot while we still have a chance to affect change.

It is no secret that I am a proponent of the lottery. What you propose, I think, might have some merit. If it was tied to people being able to see the number of bids on a plot but not who bid on a plot, it might serve to distribute the bids more evenly. I wonder if you could elaborate more on your idea. Would there be unlimited chances to withdraw bids during a particular bidding period or a limited number of chances to withdraw? Would there be a cut-off period? While I support the Lottery model, there may be ways to improve upon it to make it less painful. You appear to be making an effort to do just that. Thank you.

[LunaFancy]

I think the bids should be anonymous, that goes without saying, I also feel we should be able to see exactly how many bids there are on a plot. The bid numbers should be updated at reset (ideally twice a day but in the interest of simplifying things at the developer level reset would suffice).

My proposal would be that we could change our entry status once per reset up until the final day, at which point we are locked in. I think this will mean people feel comfortable bidding across the duration of the lottery period as opposed to waiting til the last minute and so we'll have a clearer picture of what is going on when we bid.

The pros and cons arguments have been made, but if we can set aside our differences and rally as a whole we can hopefully make the lottery system that is coming as fair for all of us as it can be.

[DeNada]

There has to be some sort of deterrent to discourage people from nilly willy changing their bids though as that would confuse people who submitted a bid based on information that could vary if bids are withdrawable.

Perhaps a withdrawal fee based on the 20% of the plot price would reduce such situations so people are serious about their bids but would still be able to if they are ok with paying the withdrawal fee.

[LunaFancy]

If you can only withdraw once a day and the numbers update at reset I don't see that what you are concerned about will be an issue, restricting the number of withdrawals to one per reset should be enough in my opinion.

[LaylaTsarra]

There has to be some sort of deterrent to discourage people from nilly willy changing their bids though as that would confuse people who submitted a bid based on information that could vary if bids are withdrawable.

People are going to wait until the last hour or so to place bids. There won't be any accurate information about how many have or will bid until the last hour assuming the bid number on the house is shown and updated upon entry. Letting people change isn't and shouldn't be a problem. It at least gives some who are willing to work at finding a house with a few bids and increasing their chance for getting a house.

Be that as it may they've already appear to have made the decision to not allow withdrawals so I know personally I'm going to wait and I'm sure I won't be the only one.

With respect to Materia I hope we will have a mix of FCFS and Lotto in the older housing districts or restrict lotto to Ishgard only. That certainly hasn't been made clear by the post on the special site. We'll know the full playing field in a few days when they discuss this during the live letter.

I feel for people on Materia who actually gave up houses with the expectation they would be able to FCFS a house on the new data center because it's always been that way and the initial discussion of housing stated there would at the least be a mix of FCFS and Lotto but that certainly appears to have changed.

[LunaFancy]

I feel for people on Materia who actually gave up houses with the expectation they would be able to FCFS a house on the new data center because it's always been that way and the initial discussion of housing stated there would be a mix of FCFS and Lotto but that certainly appears to have changed.

I would be one of those people sadly, the last live letter made it clear that ALL wards being released in 61, I gave up a large personal to move and I would not have done so had they been transparent about this at the launch of the data centre.

Be that as it may, the challenge now is to come together as a community to at least try to make a case for setting up the lottery system to be less punishing than the current proposal is going to be.

As you say, people will wait until the last minute to bid with the system that has been proposed and it is going to be chaotic at best.

Nothing is set in stone until the patch drops, though and the devs have a track record of listening to player concerns so let's make a case for changes that will make the process better while we still have a chance to be heard.

[LaylaTsarra]

I would be one of those people sadly, the last live letter made it clear that ALL wards being released in 61, I gave up a large personal to move and I would not have done so had they been transparent about this at the launch of the data centre.

Wow giving up a large is quite a jump and i hope you don't get shut out.

In my case i transferred and skipped an alt and gave her gil before the transfer. The xp buff has been pretty amazing relative to leveling given i have 6 roles at 84 or higher and have my character ready to do the 89 dungeon and should get to endgame today or tomorrow.

My FC is almost rank 12 and I want basically a small or perhaps a medium but be more than happy with a small in a good location. I'm there with a few friends who also decided to make characters on the DC. Obviously the prime locations will be those with the most bids and being able to shop around in different wards will take time.

I've never had a problem getting a house with FCFS and that includes the large I own on Siren in Shiro which i got wiith the 4.1 Shiro Extreme housing addition. I own houses on other servers mostly small FC's I share with alts and a few friend and they are all in prime locations. With Materia I think there is a good chance at being shut out especially on Sophia which has the highest population atm,.

[Azuri]

I'm indifferent to bid withdrawl since in both cases there is capacity for gaming the system. Either with last second bids or askng your friends to fake-bid to discourage competition. It's just the case of which you find more annoying.

In regards to FCs having an advantage with multiple bids, Yoshida specifically addressed this in LL and stated that such advantage is intentional. To SE an FC house is more valuable than a personal one since more players get to interact with it. Personal-only wards will alleviate this a bit.

[Shibi]

Personal-only wards will alleviate this a bit.

Personal wards only work in Emperyum. They won't work in Lavender Beds, Ul'dah, Mist, Shirogane 1-24.

After Emperyum is over and done with, and we are back to one demo a week, those FC advantages will actually be quite substantial.