Honest question for people dissatisfied with WHM:

[Silver-Strider]

With this or any game, people will be people, you can make all kind of changes but you will have one group who likes it, one group who dont and the middle ones that is 50 50 on it. All in all people are playing a game for how they enjoy it not for the enjoyment of others unless maybe family or friend but for sure not strangers.

I dont believe it has to do with people being lazy or having no skill. I can rant forever how i want stormblood ast back and it wont happen but for those that still play ast now still loves it I cant be upset at them for it can I?

Ast was so much more tactical and fun for me in stormblood now to me it does feel like a lazy more slightly better whm. it totally lost its lure even though its still in the good ratings and I simply just moved on to sage. Not arguing or anything just being general =)

Yeah but there wasn't a 100 page thread titled "Have you quit healing" in ARR or HW. That trend only started in SB when they started pruning skills (or in WHM's case by being shafted by the lackluster Lily System).

[IceBlueNinja]

Yeah but there wasn't a 100 page thread titled "Have you quit healing" in ARR or HW. That trend only started in SB when they started pruning skills (or in WHM's case by being shafted by the lackluster Lily System).

ah not sure friend i started coming to forums on shadow bringers xd but ye i did hear my whm friends mainers complain on lily and plenary i did main whm but drop it when i got the grasp of ast in stormblood. It seems after storm blood even tanks too kind lost some of their lore, god when they had 2 stances and ninja i think did too from a friend who use to main nin. guess not only healer got some punch down others did too.

[IceBlueNinja]

I mean, WHM was just as horribly designed in Shadowbringers; the only thing they changed was nerfing Thin Air. Glare spam is a snorefest. The only reason someone would want to keep Glarespam as its "identity" is to make it the designated crap healer you graduate away from once you want actual engagement or strength.

I'll reiterate what I've said elsewhere: this type of balance works on DPS casters. Where the "simple" one does the most damage, and the more utility-heavy ones deal less personal damage in exchange for their utility. The only major difference is that BLM is simple in goal, but requires finesse in execution. WHM is both simple in goal and execution, hence the constant bewilderment around here whenever WHM trips and falls its way to the top of the damage charts. "It can't do the most damage. I do more work than a WHM for less output! Rebalance, rebalance!" cries the healer subforum.

So riddle me this. If WHM isn't allowed to have utility, and isn't allowed to manage anything aside from boring Glare spamming and boring Cure spamming because anything more ruins its identity of being boring and terrible, then it's....what? Just last place intentionally? What's it supposed to be good at? "Giving fast queues and clearing content on easymode" isn't an identity.

know what is lame is whm and ast story mentioning old non existance skills, poor sprouts must be like umm whats time dilation, fluid aura etc lol. Please se at least make their story sensible

[ElysiumDragon]

I think there's space for WHM to bring more raw DPS to the table, maybe by having a more complex DPS rotation. If it's going to be a fairly simple job in terms of healing, a more complex DPS rotation wouldn't hurt, and ultimately allows for both beginner-friendly gameplay, as well as hyper-optimization for veteran WHM players.

[Haadrak]

I think there's space for WHM to bring more raw DPS to the table, maybe by having a more complex DPS rotation. If it's going to be a fairly simple job in terms of healing, a more complex DPS rotation wouldn't hurt, and ultimately allows for both beginner-friendly gameplay, as well as hyper-optimization for veteran WHM players.

The thing is, most people I've seen aren't even asking for more DPS, they're just asking for the DPS they currently have to require more than 2111111111111111111111111111... oh no my 1 key broke hang on guys gotta rebind... 23333333333333333333

[Sarim]

I doubt that healer DPS will be increased overall. That's why everytime I see people asking for "more buttons to press" I wonder, is that really a good idea? Would it really be more "fun" to have a three step dps combo (like all melee have) that ultimately results in the same DPS output we have now? Do you really want to do more work for the same result?

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I doubt that healer DPS will be increased overall.

Healer DPS need not anymore increase. In fact, healers are doing a bit far too much dps. Two healers in a party can easily outdps a top SAM/MNK/RPR/BLM's dps.

Would it really be more "fun" to have a three step dps combo (like all melee have) that ultimately results in the same DPS output we have now? Do you really want to do more work for the same result?

Honestly if that's all they can come up with? I'd say yes. But it still won't fix all healers' issues, especially the lack of cohesiveness and interactions within their own arsenals.

Why do player think doing 1-2-3 on WAR feels better? Because it generates beast gauge which later on can be spent on Fell Cleaves.
Why do player think doing RDM's Dualcast gimmick is fun? Because it generates white/black mana which can lead to many different possibilities instead of just basing every gain from the potencies you read in their dualcasted tooltips.
Then when people start bringing them into raid scene, people can start moving big bursty damage buttons into raidbuff window because that's how they generate the most benefit from each of those resource usage.

Healers got nothing close like that. If anything, it's more and more bloated, unnecessary kits that's designed for an encounter that never existed in this game. They yearn for buttons that holds meaningful decisions. Right now, outside very few windows where scripted damage are coming out (which of course good healers will have mapped their cooldowns accordingly), the only meaningful action they can do is to just break that 1 nuke button that they spend 80% of encounter duration... and hey, it's not even what their role made for! Very inspiring design indeed.

[Rilifane]

I doubt that healer DPS will be increased overall. That's why everytime I see people asking for "more buttons to press" I wonder, is that really a good idea? Would it really be more "fun" to have a three step dps combo (like all melee have) that ultimately results in the same DPS output we have now? Do you really want to do more work for the same result?

By that logic, why does any job have a proper rotation (except healers, obviously)? It's just more buttons for the same result!
Because in general, people don't want to feel bored by excessively repetitive gameplay. There is a fine line between QoL and consolidating or removing unnecessary buttons (Enochion being a good example) and oversimplifying a job's rotation to the point of repetitive and stale gameplay.
Healer dps overall doesn't need to increase, the role deals a respectable amount of damage. Some healers need a bump, WHM most of all but SGE will also need adjustment if it wants to stay competetive with the increasing power creep. But what healers do need are better downtime options that not only make the average dps rotation less stale but also gives them a proper skill ceiling and room for optimization and meaningful decisions.

On BLM when learning a fight, I'll use Triple, Xeno and Swift liberally for movement. I'm more likely to Sharp my Firedox than my Thunder for even more movement and additional AF refresh. I'll not use Transpose lines as they're generally pretty turret-y. I'll rarely, if ever, let the timer tick down to 1 before the refresh hits. I'll move sooner out of my LL rather than later to be safe with dodging.
The better I know a fight, the more I'll push Triples and Swift into raid buffs, dump all my Xenos during them and shift around my highest potency skills so they catch as many buffs as possible even if it means butt clenching hard while the timer ticks down to 1 before refresh hits, prioritize Thunder for Sharp, incorporate some Transpose lines. I'll try to snapshot that last GCD in LL even if I almost burn off my butt when dodging last second. I'll watch the boss castbar like a hawk to port back into them asap. It's a gradual process that doesn't grow stale even after many weeks of reclears and that always requires focus.
On healer, when learning a fight I'll keep my oGCDs rolling while keeping my dot up, spamming my Glaroileficosis and occasionally trade a 1 for a GCD heal to be safe. The better I know the fight and the better my party performs the less I'll trade a 1 for a GCD heal until that number becomes a 0 and that's pretty much it. SGE can dump their Phlegma under raid buffs which doesn't require any infinity stone brain moves, SCH can minimize AF heal use, strongly depends on their co heal and party mitigation though. WHM can minimize Lilies, same as with SCH minimizing AF. AST can try to catch small bursts with their cards.
It's also guaranteed to get easier with gear. Significantly.
Which heal I use for raidwides rarely makes a difference because they're so far apart that even the difference between regens and burst heals is negligible in most cases. Whether I use a Zoe Pneuma or Physis II after a raidwide almost always leads to the same result: damage healed, everyone healthy enough to survive the next raidwide.

[Irenia]

When it comes to WHM I've been playing around with the idea with making Lilies damage *positive*, by not only letting it build to misery, but also proc other things that help end the encounter faster.

Shouldn't change much, just that optimization will involve the WHM never capping lilies and using them to heal first over even oGCDs.

[Liam_Harper]

I doubt that healer DPS will be increased overall. That's why everytime I see people asking for "more buttons to press" I wonder, is that really a good idea? Would it really be more "fun" to have a three step dps combo (like all melee have) that ultimately results in the same DPS output we have now? Do you really want to do more work for the same result?

Yes.

Would dps be just as fun if you turned them into 2-3 buttons. Less work for the same result!