Change the name to RangeLines already.

[Ixon]

Do you disagree with this statement? As this is my talking point you are arguing against as you chattered on about tanks.

DRG's and NIN's also do less damage than RPR, MNK, and SAM:

"In 5.3 the final adjustments to frontline PVP were made, in it:
- The bonus to damage dealt for tank and melee DPS roles has been reduced from 15% to 10%.
- Bonus to damage reduction for dragoon and ninja has been reduced from 30% to 25%."

And DRG's are squishy, just stun them and they fall like the rest, they go in all the time for Spineshatter and Stardiver. Even if they are playing a "ranged DPS" they are still doing far less damage single target than a MNK or SAM that is in your face. So sure, a DRG can play that way, but it's not guaranteed success. The fact that they have a lot of "ranged" abilities isn't even the biggest thing, it's their AoE. Every Roles best jobs for Frontlines can be boiled down to how much AoE they have. That's why you see the most common jobs at the top are the ones that have the most consistant AoE options. Blind AoE spam leads to more assists, which leads to Battle High faster, which leads to more AoE damage, which assists in more kills. When you look at the top of a FL board post match, the top damage is usually from those jobs that AoE spam. Besides, this is only really prevalent in Onsal, where people group up at the top of the ramp making it easier for AoE to be affective. Even DRG's aren't usually as effective on other maps because there aren't as big of chokes like the ramp in Onsal.

If you are really tired of seeing the top jobs at the top, SE would need to remove a lot of the AoE from those jobs to make assits harder and adjust maps like the mid point in Onsal to prevent the worst of choke points. Though who knows how the jobs will be in a week.

[Chasingstars]

From my own experience of frontlines, in its current balance state of 6.0:

I honestly never seen a SAM with a battle high of 5, more like a 3 most of the time.
MNK I have see a handful of times reach battle high 5, usually 4.
RPR I seen get a battle high 5, but most of the time they are in the 1-3 range.

NIN and DRG? I routinely see at least, at minimum, one of each per game get battle high 5.

SMN? Battle highs 4 or 5.
RDM? 3 or 4.
BLM? 5.

Bards and Machinists? 3 to 5.
Dancer? 0 to 5.

[Ixon]

From my own experience of frontlines, in its current balance state of 6.0:

I honestly never seen a SAM with a battle high of 5, more like a 3 most of the time.
MNK I have see a handful of times reach battle high 5, usually 4.
RPR I seen get a battle high 5, but most of the time they are in the 1-3 range.

NIN and DRG? I routinely see at least, at minimum, one of each per game get battle high 5.

SMN? Battle highs 4 or 5.
RDM? 3 or 4.
BLM? 5.

Bards and Machinists? 3 to 5.
Dancer? 0 to 5.

You say this as this weekend there was a 25kill, 200mil damage DNC. Plus I can personally get top damage on any tank easily. Battle High is more about who can pad the best, which again goes back to who can do the most AoEs. If anything I would reduce how much you get from an assist due to how easy it is, and make it easier for healers to get assists as it can be difficult for non-WHM healers.

[KageTokage]

I am a touch interested in seeing the new LBs change things up because some of them already seem a bit...strong compared to the current options, like WHM's Afflatus Purgation effectively being a ranged LB on steroids with how wide its radius is.

[Ixon]

I *thought* I remember hearing during Live Letter 67 something along the lines of how the jobs are going to be in Crystal Conflict weren't going to be exactly how they are in Frontlines and Rival Wings, but I can't find anything that supports that yet. Like the LB's themselves as you mention would be a madhouse. RDM LB is an AoE Bind plus damage, PLD LB is Hallowed plus Confeiteor Combo that applies a debuff, SAM is a one person nuke that unless you blue shield it looks like it'll pretty much insta kill anyone, DRK's is some weird version of Living Dead that also does a massive front back cleave, I think RPR's does the AoE Terror, and DNC does an AoE charm, and WHM like you mention does a line AoE bind into damage and applies a Temperance buff to everyone. All those AoE's and binds would be ridiculous in Frontlines given how fast they charge, even with self healing and self purify.

They haven't really discusses PVP outside of the new mode, so I don't think we will know exactly till 6.1 drops. If all the jobs are the same across all PVP modes, it's going to be insane.

[Moonlite]

I *thought* I remember hearing during Live Letter 67 something along the lines of how the jobs are going to be in Crystal Conflict weren't going to be exactly how they are in Frontlines and Rival Wings, but I can't find anything that supports that yet. Like the LB's themselves as you mention would be a madhouse. RDM LB is an AoE Bind plus damage, PLD LB is Hallowed plus Confeiteor Combo that applies a debuff, SAM is a one person nuke that unless you blue shield it looks like it'll pretty much insta kill anyone, DRK's is some weird version of Living Dead that also does a massive front back cleave, I think RPR's does the AoE Terror, and DNC does an AoE charm, and WHM like you mention does a line AoE bind into damage and applies a Temperance buff to everyone. All those AoE's and binds would be ridiculous in Frontlines given how fast they charge, even with self healing and self purify.

They haven't really discusses PVP outside of the new mode, so I don't think we will know exactly till 6.1 drops. If all the jobs are the same across all PVP modes, it's going to be insane.

I always thought having multiple limit breaks would make the jobs way more interesting. We have so few buttons and having 2 or 3 unique limit breaks would really spice stuff up. Also it is a shame they could release the info for all the changes for PvP ahead of time. It isn't going to break the game or anything.

[Ixon]

I always thought having multiple limit breaks would make the jobs way more interesting. We have so few buttons and having 2 or 3 unique limit breaks would really spice stuff up. Also it is a shame they could release the info for all the changes for PvP ahead of time. It isn't going to break the game or anything.

The limits breaks, even for the 10 jobs we saw, seem crazy. Especially if the rate at which you charge a limit break is based off the strength of it akin to Ultimates in Overwatch. From discussions with others just combing over the gameplay we have, we can assume it's most likely around 8-10 job exclusive buttons on top of the Big Heal, Small Heal, Purify, Blue Shield, Toggle Sprint, and LB. Which isn't too far off from what we have now. I also assume the optional additionals are gone, but that's to be seen. I assume the lack of FL and RW information is just to maintain focus on the new mode, though if this mode takes off on it's own and is a success, I assume they will circle back around to Rival Wings and the next item to tackle.

[Oizen]

Personally I would call it Stunlines, as the metagame is entirely about spamming so many different stuns and different forms of cc that it would make Overwatch blush.

The issue I see is more of the fact that ranged classes, for whatever reason,gets access to the best stuns while melee tend to get shafted in that department. Melee classes get to do more damage but that doesn't matter at all because thats not part of the meta game, the metagame is spamming stuns and then everyone attacking the stunned target. So having Ranged have a damage penalty isn't a balancing factor as thats not how you win or even play frontline.

You run around as a blob, throw out every single stun and cc move under the planet, and then all rush whoever gets stunned. Doesn't matter if Ranged is kinda weak in terms of damage output. they're all attacking the same stunned target who will get insta-deleted anyway.

[KageTokage]

From glossing over all of the new LBs, some of them potentially sound a bit...overbearing unless they have an ungodly long charge time to compensate.

WHM's in particular has such an obscenely huge radius (40 yards long/wide) that sufficiently stacked WHMs could potentially wipe out an entire alliance in Frontlines and it also stuns on top of that.

[Ixon]

Except Guard prevents CC, and Purify removes CC, while also making you CC invuln for a while afterwards. I think they wanted jobs to feel strong in one way or another, and I think they accomplished it.