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  1. #1
    Player
    ProstheticSoul's Avatar
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    Feb 2022
    Location
    New Gridania (Wish I could change it to Limsa, lol)
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    18
    Character
    Jannon Rehw-nong
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    "It was deliberately written so the story makes sense with or without completing the Crystal Tower story line"

    I deny this assertion with every fiber of my being. Flat out false. Full stop. I just checked my cut scene history, and apparently I had already beaten the Crystal Tower raids. However, let me be brutally candid here--Shadowbringer on the whole dd not make a lick of sense to me anyway, especially concerning the parts involving the Exarch. And if a player hadn't even touched the Crystal Tower sections beforehand the story would have had ZERO emotional weight. Not less--ZERO. Nada, nothing!

    As an aside, turns out I did memory hole the entire Crystal Tower saga. That must been one of the sections I completed before the seven-year hiatus. And that would certainly go a long a way to explaining why the big hood reveal amounted to jack and squat with me. That's fair. I will own up to that. But I will stand by my other point concerning optional content. I would even go a step further and state it would be a lot better for everyone involved if Square-Enix would roll out a patch for Shadowbringer for any adventurer just starting the expansion.

    Right before the first quest starts there would be a disclaimer that would appear on the screen in big bold letters that would state:
    DUDE, IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE CRYSTAL TOWER QUEST LINE, THEN JUST DO IT. FOLLOW THAT MIQOTE ALREADY. AND IF YOU HAVE ALREADY FINISHED THE RAIDS, THEN REWATCH ALL OF THE CUT SCENES. YES, ALL OF THEM YOU BIG OAF. THANK ME LATER DUDES AND DUDETTES.
    -Yoshi P.

    I don't know why I made him talk like he's from Cali but whatever. Anywho, my point is I just got done rewatching all of the Crystal Tower cutscenes, and mostly everything involving the Exarch is NOW starting to line up. Finally. Should have done that ages ago.
    (1)
    Last edited by ProstheticSoul; 03-22-2022 at 03:17 PM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Sep 2021
    Location
    Solution Eight (it's not as good)
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    3,005
    Character
    Ein Dose
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ProstheticSoul View Post
    Right before the first quest starts there would be a disclaimer that would appear on the screen in big bold letters that would state:
    DUDE, IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE CRYSTAL TOWER QUEST LINE, THEN JUST DO IT. FOLLOW THAT MIQOTE ALREADY. AND IF YOU HAVE ALREADY FINISHED THE RAIDS, THEN REWATCH ALL OF THE CUT SCENES. YES, ALL OF THEM YOU BIG OAF. THANK ME LATER DUDES AND DUDETTES.
    -Yoshi P.
    The Crystal Tower itself being a big centerpiece of the setting didn't tip you off that this was probably a relevant piece of story?

    And for the record, the actual timeline of the required-ness-itude of the Crystal Tower to Shadowbringers:

    From 5.0 through 5.2, the Crystal Tower was recommended reading by the developers, but not enforced in the story. There was ample amount of optional dialog if you did the Crystal Tower, but the core plot didn't ask you to and wasn't written as if you need to know what happened (or even saying that it happened at all; if you hadn't done the Crystal Tower then it acted like you just hadn't done that yet).

    Come 5.3, they actually make the Crystal Tower required for progressing in the story, as 5.3 onward touches on actual parts of the Crystal Tower story rather than just the existence of the Tower. This is actually done, as I understand it, by multiple requirement gates: a new character is asked to do the raids during 2.x as the raids are current at that time, an existing character is I believe barred from continuing from both 5.0 and 5.3 until they've done it (I know it's at least one of these, probably both).

    You're right that a blind spot in this is that they can't account for someone who has done the raids, but has forgotten. But that's just an ongoing problem in basically every kind of storytelling; most of them don't remind you of important details just to make sure you're on the same page when they do the reveals, they just expect you to retain memory, because... well, if you were that flagrant about it then you just blow the reveal for the people who actually are paying attention enough to get it.

    And to answer the 'Garlean emperor was an Ascian' question, this is more specifically explained in Endwalker (but isn't necessarily important to Endwalker, it's just clarified there), so I'll section off the answer into two parts. For Shadowbringers: the Emperor was an Ascian at all points where this question would be a useful question to ask, he possessed a Garlean who hadn't done much of note and molded the nation into the Empire we know them as now. Solus Galvus was an Ascian at all points where Solus Galvus was an important figure.

    The Endwalker-given specifics:

    Emet-Selch specifically possessed Solus at some point during his twenties or thirties, who was a generally nothing-special soldier. Under Solus' name he climbed the ranks of the nation's politics, introduced magitek, and molded the nation from a republic into a totalitarian empire.
    (2)

  3. #3
    Player
    PawPaw's Avatar
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    Dec 2013
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    Elpis- The Mourning Dew
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    297
    Character
    Mini Mort
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 90
    The CT raids weren't always mandatory, but they have been made so now. I quit playing regularly after HW and would only come back for patch content and EPs so I was also in the boat of not having done CT since whenever it was released (2013?) And I wasn't aware that Yoshi had suggested that everyone refresh themselves on that content before going into ShB. As a result I had no idea who the Exarch was on my first time through and even when his face was revealed I was still lost because, yknow, it had been quite a few years for me. I loved ShB but I was bummed at the time that that moment didn't have as much impact as it could have had.

    But with that being said, it is now part of the MSQ and is no longer optional content. So that shouldn't be an issue for newer players.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player
    Bad_Luck's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    177
    Character
    Bad Lucky
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Arcanist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by ProstheticSoul View Post
    send the WoL on a bunch of fetch quests
    Oh no fetch quests, that's so terrible
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player
    SannaR's Avatar
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    Feb 2018
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    3,320
    Character
    Sanna Rosewood
    World
    Midgardsormr
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Lahabreha possessed Thancred's body back in 2.0. The process wasn't complete and by destroying the dark crystal that he used to do it we managed to kick him out. Elidibus has Zenos's body dug up and takes possession of it for the rest of 4.0. Well until Zenos in the body of a regular Garlean foot solider makes it back to Garlemald and the throne room. If you want to travel to other shards or to the source you have to well die. Or if you've technically already done that you need to shed any body you were in in order to do so. It's why the WoL/Wod being in the 1st whole sale is unique. Emet even tells you he did such when he went to the first and yes he took over the body of Solus. No we don't know what happens to the soul of the person if it happens while they're still alive. Most instances that we know of seem to be possession after the person died. Even Ardbert and friends did the whole body ditch when they came to the source on false pretenses of doing Elidibus's deeds thinking it'd save the 1st. Even Unhikalhi you know the strange kid Urianger introduced us who lives in the Solar of the Rising Stones is just like how the Scions are while on the first a soul manifested without a body.
    (1)

  6. #6
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
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    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    I wouldn't consider any of the stuff Emet-Selch mentions as critical lore as virtually of it gets brought up later in mandatory dialogue.
    (0)

  7. #7
    Player
    ProstheticSoul's Avatar
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    Feb 2022
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    New Gridania (Wish I could change it to Limsa, lol)
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    18
    Character
    Jannon Rehw-nong
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by KageTokage View Post
    I wouldn't consider any of the stuff Emet-Selch mentions as critical lore as virtually of it gets brought up later in mandatory dialogue.
    Ugh, if that's true...

    I will never understand Square-Enix's obsession with explaining lore-critical details hours after the headaches subside from said confusion and one no longer cares anymore about comprehending it all. There's a a proper time and pacing to uncovering mysteries, but the same can't be said for convoluted plot points that do nothing but lessen the impact of the great mystery's unraveling because no one understands what's happening at the given moment.
    (0)
    "In a society that has abolished all adventure the only adventure left is to abolish society."
    -Parisian graffito, 1968

  8. #8
    Player
    KageTokage's Avatar
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    Feb 2017
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    7,093
    Character
    Alijana Tumet
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 100
    By "later" I mean within 5.0-5.3.

    I'd consider all of it foreshadowing at best regardless; namely the bits about Ascian "names" just being titles of office and memory crystals being utilized in filling empty seats of the Convocation.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    HyoMinPark's Avatar
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    Feb 2016
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    Lavender Beds, Ward 13, Plot 41
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    7,339
    Character
    Hyomin Park
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Sage Lv 92
    Some of them are a bit nitpicky. Especially the one on Ascian/Ancient lore. You can get lore from side quests within the game, which are also optional content—but everything necessary to understand the main scenario is always brought up in some way during the course of the main storyline. Even if the tidbits can also be found in the optional content. Your understanding of the Ancients and their society will not lack from not speaking to Emet during the 5.0 MSQ, but he does give “advance knowledge” on certain things you’ll hear about down the road.

    It’s kind of the same for the CT series argument. Yoshida stressed repeatedly to revisit the story prior to ShB launch—and in 5.3, made completion of CT mandatory to even get to HW. So it’s not like he didn’t try to hint at the importance. The team also did various adjustments to make unlocking the raids and progressing through their storyline much faster compared to in the past (such as removing the FATE requirements).

    I can agree that Urianger’s way of speaking gets irksome after a time. The only reason I can give for why they have him speak as such in English is because, in Japanese, he uses highly formal speech patterns. As English doesn’t have a formal speech equivalent, I’m guessing they thought his dialect was the best they could do.

    Quote Originally Posted by ProstheticSoul View Post
    Old and/or Middle English
    Urianger isn’t using Old or Middle English. Old English would be near unintelligible to us, and Middle English not far behind.

    A fun sample: The Lord’s Prayer in Middle English.

    Oure fadir that art in heuenes, halewid be thi name; thi kyngdoom come to; be thi wille don, in erthe as in heuene. Yyue to vs this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce, and foryyue to vs oure dettis, as we foryyuen to oure dettouris; and lede vs not in to temptacioun, but delyuere vs fro yuel. Amen.
    (10)
    Last edited by HyoMinPark; 03-23-2022 at 05:59 PM.
    Sage | Astrologian | Dancer

    마지막 날 널 찾아가면
    마지막 밤 기억하길

    Hyomin Park#0055

  10. #10
    Player
    ProstheticSoul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Location
    New Gridania (Wish I could change it to Limsa, lol)
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    18
    Character
    Jannon Rehw-nong
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by HyoMinPark View Post
    Some of them are a bit nitpicky. Especially the one on Ascian/Ancient lore.
    Well, that's certainly your opinion. And you're certainly entitled to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistakeNot View Post
    Urianger isn't using Middle English. The English he is using is Modern English. (Somewhat archaic English in some cases, but still Modern English). Middle English is much different.
    It isn't all that difficult to understand Urianger, even if his language use tends to be a bit more convoluted than that of most other characters. You just need a decent knowledge of English.
    Ah, that is indeed my mistake. I edited my other post to reflect the accuracy. Regardless, my argument remains the same. Just replace middle English with Shakespearean.
    (0)
    Last edited by ProstheticSoul; 04-06-2022 at 12:43 AM.
    "In a society that has abolished all adventure the only adventure left is to abolish society."
    -Parisian graffito, 1968

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