I did not enjoy Shadowbringer (SPOILERS)

[Carin-Eri]

Can't really comment on Endwalker yet as haven't finished it yet, but I thought Shadowbringers was great and the battle against Hades (and the cutscenes either side) blew me away - "This is our future. Our Story" still gives me goosebumps!

[IckeDerTyp]

I called it was G'raha way before he revealed himself and I skip most cinematics!

How do I do it :x

[Skyborne]

I called it was G'raha way before he revealed himself and I skip most cinematics!

How do I do it :x

Some people were thrown off by the crystallization and lack of ears, but a lot nailed it because of the Crystal Tower association and Yoshi telling us to do the raid + there is absolutely no mistaking that distinctive catboy babyface.

And as far as things being explained, I thought they went into some length with the auracite and how it was only a temporary hold with the whole Moenbryda/Nabriales scene. Though the OP did say they took a long break...

[ProstheticSoul]

Wait, wait, wait...am I getting this correctly? This entire expansion revolved around an OPTIONAL raid? Was this Crystal Tower raid a part of the MSQ at any point? I honestly can't remember. Because if this was an optional raid that I somehow missed between beating Heavensward and my seven-year hiatus then I am afraid this only bolsters my original criticism of Shadowbringer. You cannot make an expansion that inexorably follows the MSQ to its conclusion that is heavily centered on optional content that the player can miss. This is quite possibly the first cardinal sin of video-game writing, and Yoshi P shamelessly broke it with a grin on his face.

It would be akin to Peter Jackson incorporating heavy elements from the Silmarillion in The Return of the King™ out of nowhere when the gist of the adaptation thus far was basically "Sauron is big bad, ring of power needs to be destroyed." It's just....no, please God, NO. Stop over-complicating things! If this is not the case then disregard. I really need to check this raid again to see if I did complete it and didn't just memory hole it somehow. Good heavens there is much more I missed in this seven years then I had originally imagined. It's making my head hurt.

As for the things I liked and loved about Shadowbringer...that's easy. Hades (can't even remember the guy's Garlean name, their names too make my head hurt). His presence during the second part was a breath of fresh air. Not completely villainous like Blonde Sephiroth, and he had so much empathy and pathos going for him. Freaking felt sorry for the guy by the time my character rent his torso asunder with that axe born of light. Was almost rooting for him to win and not the Scions at certain points. That is how much I enjoyed his character. The track that played during his fight was something to behold as well. Almost hit me the same way One-winged Angel did. Damn close.

But once again, my enjoyment of this very multidimensional, multifaceted villain is a bit marred by his convoluted origins that make very little sense to me. That whole plot line involving the Empire rolling out clones for him to continually possess had my face contort in ways I'd rather not go into detail here. I'm not sure I understood the point. Ascians are basically an immortal, almost demigod-like proto race that can possess bodies a la The Thing™, travel between worlds and so on and so forth. I get that. What I don't get is why a powerful exemplar of such a race would require a legion of clones to be able to live so long. At least, that's what I gathered with his interactions with his grandson. Unless I misconstrued that entire scene, which is entirely possible. Wouldn't it have been far simpler to just forego the dumb clones and state in a cutscene:

"Mwahaha, yes indeed! The founder of the empire was an Ascian all along! And I never died, I just changed form into an old man to make you think I withered away! But now I am young again because that's what we Ascians do! We're cool like that!"

[SannaR]

Snips

He used clones because body hopping and altering them takes up energy. Emet doesn't enjoy using any of his aether/power if he doesn't need to. It's why he chose to live as the person he originally possssed until that body dies. Unlike Lahabreha and Elidibus who frequently body hop. To the point Lahabreha did it so much that he basically was burning the candle at both ends. They're only immortal due to the fact you can't easily kill such an aetherical dense person as an Ascian. Along with anyone who has the echo. Or at least that's what they hint at with Zenos since he didn't die and has a fake one. Though it could also be due to the fact Emet is his biological great grandfather.

As Pawpaw stated the Crystal Tower raids was optional and now is a road block soon after completing 2.0. When they made it mandatory due to how the MSQ unfolds if you hadn't done it by the start of 5.3 and you were at that point in the MSQ you'd have to go and unlock it.

[ProstheticSoul]

He used clones because body hopping and altering them takes up energy. Emet doesn't enjoy using any of his aether/power if he doesn't need to. It's why he chose to live as the person he originally possssed until that body dies. Unlike Lahabreha and Elidibus who frequently body hop. To the point Lahabreha did it so much that he basically was burning the candle at both ends. They're only immortal due to the fact you can't easily kill such an aetherical dense person as an Ascian. Along with anyone who has the echo. Or at least that's what they hint at with Zenos since he didn't die and has a fake one. Though it could also be due to the fact Emet is his biological great grandfather.

As Pawpaw stated the Crystal Tower raids was optional and now is a road block soon after completing 2.0. When they made it mandatory due to how the MSQ unfolds if you hadn't done it by the start of 5.3 and you were at that point in the MSQ you'd have to go and unlock it.

Okay, this brings up another can of worms for me. I don't recall any of these details and minutiae involving body possession being debilitating to Ascians anywhere in any major cutscene. And if these points were in a major cutscene, I sure hope it wasn't some 60 hours back in one of the first quest lines in ARR. Because again, I don't have that kind of memory. You're killing me here, Square-Enix. Do I have to look this up in a book somewhere in Limsa or something? In Uldah? Is there a library in Eorzea you guys are getting all of this information from?

This brings me to another question I have. You speak of the body he originally possessed. Does this mean the founder of the Empire was NOT an Ascian but just possessed by an Ascian? Again, questions like these are just one of many I have involving the entirety of Shadowbringer. And it all eventually adds up into an amalgam of utter confusion and incomprehensibility that makes me want to tear my hair out. I have a litany of questions just like this that would destroy the character limit of a single post on here. And that's just for the first part of Shadowbringer.

[HyoMinPark]

Okay, this brings up another can of worms for me. I don't recall any of these details and minutiae involving body possession being debilitating to Ascians anywhere in any major cutscene. And if these points were in a major cutscene, I sure hope it wasn't some 60 hours back in one of the first quest lines in ARR. Because again, I don't have that kind of memory. You're killing me here, Square-Enix. Do I have to look this up in a book somewhere in Limsa or something? In Uldah? Is there a library in Eorzea you guys are getting all of this information from?

While I cannot give a definitive quest name, these revelations were not prior to ShB. During the ShB MSQ, you can actually talk to Emet-Selch each time he shows up with the Scions and he gives you tons of lore about himself, Ascians/the Unsundered, and Zodiark. I remember this information because 1. I immensely enjoyed ShB and absorbed a lot of information as a result, and 2. I’ve also done the full story multiple times.

Shadowbringer

I will also nitpick a bit here: the expansion is titled Shadowbringers. With an s. Not Shadowbringer.

[ProstheticSoul]

While I cannot give a definitive quest name, these revelations were not prior to ShB. During the ShB MSQ, you can actually talk to Emet-Selch each time he shows up with the Scions and he gives you tons of lore about himself, Ascians/the Unsundered, and Zodiark. I remember this information because 1. I immensely enjoyed ShB and absorbed a lot of information as a result, and 2. I’ve also done the full story multiple times.



I will also nitpick a bit here: the expansion is titled Shadowbringers. With an s. Not Shadowbringer.

Let me get this straight, Square-Enix. To comprehend one of, if not the most important aspects to FFXIV's narrative, (The Ascians) the player is expected to have the foresight and clairvoyance to speak to a villain optionally at his or her leisure at key moments of respite throughout the expansion of Shadowbringers to grasp most of the critical nuggets of information surrounding this mysterious and fascinating race of enigmatic body snatchers?

This is video-game writing of the worst ilk. This is not weaving the lore and backstory in a seamless way throughout the protagonist's natural progression in the MSQ. Like forcing the player to constantly pick up notes/journals/audio logs in a shooter or some other genre of game to get any sort of story or context. In short, my criticisms of Shadowbringers are now only piling up, not dwindling. Only silver lining I seem to have gleaned from making this thread is that undertaking new game+ for Shadowbringers is going to be extremely useful. Just a shame that it wouldn't be necessary if Square-Enix remotely understood how narrative coherence works.

[HyoMinPark]

What I don't get is why a powerful exemplar of such a race would require a legion of clones to be able to live so long. At least, that's what I gathered with his interactions with his grandson. Unless I misconstrued that entire scene, which is entirely possible. Wouldn't it have been far simpler to just forego the dumb clones and state in a cutscene:

"Mwahaha, yes indeed! The founder of the empire was an Ascian all along! And I never died, I just changed form into an old man to make you think I withered away! But now I am young again because that's what we Ascians do! We're cool like that!"

Though it has been a good minute since I went through the Shadowbringers MSQ, I am fairly certain that Emet-Selch mentioned at one point that he prefers possessing his own body versus the body of another. Hence the Garlean Empire manufacturing all the Younger Solus bodies.

(I also remember it being mentioned at a point that repeated possession has its own detrimental effects on Ascians. Lababrea was mentioned, and it was implied that the repeated possessions also made him a bit unstable. So they aren’t exactly infallible beings.)

[Iscah]

You cannot make an expansion that inexorably follows the MSQ to its conclusion that is heavily centered on optional content that the player can miss.

As it was presented in 5.0, it was deliberately written so the story makes sense with or without completing the Crystal Tower storyline – making the assumption that if you have not completed it then in the other timeline that the Exarch comes from, those events happened and he experienced them even if you personally have not. Because of this, he knows you regardless of whether you know him.

The story carries more emotional weight if you know who he is, but the plot plays out the same either way.