TBN & WD probably wont be fundamentally changed (in 6.xx)

[Archwizard]

It's not bashing the devs to point out it's their responsibility to design their game well and fix any overly burdensome flaws. To suggest otherwise is simply White Knighting.

I feel like you're missing context here. I'm not saying you or Lyth are dev-bashing.

You quoted Lyth, who quoted me, who was referring to-

The devs spent 5 minutes tops on rolling a dice when deciding what to keep and what to remove. There is no coherent design philosophy behind current DRK.

If you're looking for a reason, you won't find any. Reason implies some sense of logic behind the design choices, but to me it's pretty clear they rolled a dice, slapped something together. and gave themselves a pat on the back.

- a blatant example of dev-bashing, not "pointing out their responsibility."

Anytime someone trots out the tired "What would you do to fix it" rebuttal is simply attempting to shift the responsibility from the Devs to the Players.

This just feels like nonsequitur. I mean it's a truism, but why're you pulling it out here?

If you mean when I asked for Daniel to give an example number after his "LD can be fixed with a simple numbers change" claim, that was just asking him to back up the ridiculous thesis he presented.
And it's frequent in feedback for people to spitball, workshop, etc when offering suggestions, and to be excited for or critical of a suggested direction.
But I haven't seen any cases here of players telling each other to make changes to the job, knowing full-well that none of us here have the ability to do so directly. Maybe I just missed them.

Like others have said, Living Dead has been cumbersome since it's implementation and the solution is simply hitting the delete key on an IF statement in the code. That's about as simple as it gets. They can either do that or completely redesign the skill.

Holmgang got changed so it didn't lock you in place. There's zero logical reason for Living Dead to have been as clunky as it has for as long as it has.

We've been in full agreement on this, so I'm wondering if you're directing this at the wrong person...?

[BlackLion3173]

To be perfectly honest, IDGAF about 6.1's story quests at this point, and this is coming from someone who loves a good story. Endwalker's MSQ was fantastic, but choosing to level up Dark Knight soured my experience. I joined this game around 4 months before ShadowBringers came out, so I don't have any experience with how Heavensward Drk was like. But from what I can gather after reading some of the threads in this forum, Living Dead has been a pain in the ass since the beginning. This is NOT acceptable. It's gotten bad to the point that I don't want to take my DRK into Expert roulette anymore. After repeatedly dying to trash mobs while pulling W2W; even while spreading my CDs as best as possible, it's just not worth it anymore, so I take my PLD into Expert roulette instead. It's just less of a headache. The fact that it took this long to address Living Dead is a travesty. When the other tank invulns had their duration extended to 10 seconds, while Living Dead remained untouched seriously ticked me off. It took a huge wave of negative feedback just for them to finally say that they're going to "adjust" Living Dead, and it STILL irks me immensely. I don't know if it's because of the translation, but what Living Dead needs is a full REWORK/REDESIGN not just a thrice damned measly "adjustment". Now this is just speculation, the fact that they DIDN'T touch Living Dead despite several major threads stretching back BEFORE Endwalker launched mentioning it leads me to believe that they will rework the skill completely. Otherwise if they were just going to make it a worse holmegang, they would have done so at Endwalker's launch.

[AziraSyuren]

How much do we explicitly know about their tank role or job design philosophy? During Stormblood, there was a fairly major disconnect between the players and the dev team. Tanks were (presumably - although this was never explicitly explained) doing too much damage during Heavensward, so that was stealth nerfed through role locking accessories and removing tank STR scaling from them during the expansion transition. Tanks complained about the lack of STR scaling. The dev team buffed enmity in response to player feedback. Tanks laughed and equipped i280 STR accessories from Heavensward. The dev team made accessories scale STR.

I still get mad about this to this day, holy shit. Stuff like this is like half the reason that I still believe Stormblood was the low point of job design.

We really got it good compared to healers given they actually fixed it.

[Faafetai]

You've already seen what it's like to try to heal a Drk that has Living Dead go off. Let me also give you a little perspective from the other end.
Every time I activate Living Dead, I have to hope that my healer is able to get me to 100% of my hp before I die to my own ability. The worst part? I have NO way to contribute to my healing besides Soul Eater and maybe Abyssal Drain if I have it off CD. I feel like a damn burden on my healer(s) instead of being an asset.
After leveling up GNB and PLD with WAR close to being maxxed out, the difference between those tanks and DRK are like night and day. Those classes don't have to worry about their own invulns killing them at the end, and even if they did, their kits allow them to contribute to their own healing. This is a huge oversight on the dev's part, and the backlash exhibited could have been seen a mile away. Blood Weapon needs an adjustment, Living Dead needs a FULL REWORK/OVERHAUL, and no less. The rational part of me wants to believe that the devs will do right by us in Patch 6.1, but there's another part of me that thinks otherwise. If they are too resource strained(likely scenario) or too lazy(worst case), the bare minimum, like others have stated is to delete the damn healing requirement altogether. Let it go the way of the Kingdom of Voerburt: buried and forgotten. My expectations are below the ground right now. If the changes to LD are inadequate, being "descended upon in cloud of black smoke" will be the least of their worries.

Aye, aye! I understand completely, I have not played dark knight as often after the 'nerf' but I do love dark knight. I don't know if I mentioned it but I want dark to have something, anything. Some life steal. Maybe un nerf abyssal drain?? That just made me angry I honestly stopped playing it as often. Why did they make it share a cooldown with carve and split? It was the one self sustain and they pretty much took it away unless you want to waste damage in single target situations. Before you could use it off global and it would give a small heal during boss fights and in pulls it is still pretty awesome sometimes, but that would be a first step in the right direction.

I don't really think its fair that it just kills you outright as a trade off for keeping you invulnerable for slightly longer than other invulns. I like the idea of it, it sounds cool, and is fun to pull off, but the down sides are just really not worth it. I am worried they are going to ruin dark knight with whatever back asward fix blood weapon, tbn, and living dead will get like whm 'fix' taking away thin air and now it has mana problems because they just didn't forsee these things being a problem. There are small simple things they could do to fix it, but clicking the backspace button or the copy paste keys on their special coding keyboards. I have this very sinking feeling they are going to make blood weapon a charge system, but will give it less charges than the amount you would have had if the just did the math with how many weapons skills you could use during its activation.

Someone else had a really cool idea for walking dead putting you into a stat of vampirism and you would take the enemies blood or something to heal. Someone else wrote something somewhere about it nuking everything in a radius. You would still die but nothing would be alive afterwards. I know those two things might not fix anything but I still thought they were pretty cool ideas if not off the wall.

I really don't like that it kills you and you have no way to heal from it or prevent your own death it is just kind of stupid. I can see why they made it that way, but the game doesn't support it, and I know many people who main dark knight I know hate that it kills you. It is unfair. They better not nerf its damage because they make it not kill you when they fix it....if they fix it properly.