Pronoun used in lvl 87 MSQ 'Thou Must Live, Die, and Know' cutscene

[Iscah]

yes man can be the short for human but man-he-him for all humankind? that's odd and old fashioned.

Yes, it is old-fashioned. This game's script uses old-fashioned language all the time.

When "man" is the noun used, "he" is the matching pronoun. If you wanted to use something with a "they" pronoun, you would need to reword more of the sentence and, I think, make it less eloquent in the process.

[Ransu]

actually I'm okay with the word man at some point, but when it's used as a set with he/him this is uncomfortable because we do have the pronoun to include everyone which is 'they/them'.
yes man can be the short for human but man-he-him for all humankind? that's odd and old fashioned.

Have you had the game on mute? Its supposed to be old fashioned. The dub is intentionally done in old english style.

[Rongway]

I don't feel my WoL included with that pronoun and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

Though Azem's pronouns in the time of the World Unsundered match your character's pronouns, your WoL as they are in the present did not exist at the time of the sundering, and Venat did not sunder your WoL. There are many cases where this and other games would benefit from inclusive language; this might not be one of them.

When we discuss archaic texts that overgeneralize humanity to "man", we can acknowledge that those times were not conscious to a need for inclusive language, but we wouldn't change the quote to use a more inclusive term if the context was, "The original speaker said....." Venat is represented here at the time she, an Ancient, said a thing, and the language of the Ancients overgeneralized humanity to "man".

An argument could maybe be made that the Echo's alltongue power would translate "man" in your WoL's head to a gender neutral term as your WoL would understand it; but then we have to determine what exactly the extent of the WoL's experiences during the return trip through the time rift was. Which is to say, such an argument might be overthinking the matter.

[Iscah]

I don't feel my WoL included with that pronoun and that's why I don't think it's appropriate.

Then you simply have to get used to the fact that "man" means mankind or humanity in this context and, especially in older texts (as this game's script emulates) will use male pronouns despite referring to all people of all genders.

It is far simpler to accept that it does include you (and no malice is intended) than to kick up a fuss over every incident of it, because there are a lot of them.

[Canadane]

"Man" is short for Human and is not specifically for the male humans.
It is technically the neutral short form of us players (and I guess the ancients?).

[Enkidoh]

"Man" is short for Human and is not specifically for the male humans.
It is technically the neutral short form of us players (and I guess the ancients?).

Interestingly since the beginning the current Spoken races were always being addressed as the "sons/daughters of Man", so, I guess we now know why...

But yes, "man" in this case is short for human (as in "mankind") and is gender neutral. Really, I think this thread's original intention is making an unnecessary mountain out of a tiny molehill where there are far more important things to worry about.

[Annihilism]

I love these forums so much, unlike other MMOs the bait threads in here are top tier. The world may be burning but I can take comfort in knowing that FF14 has no shortage of the most ridiculous first world problems complaints ever conceived in gaming. I can always partake in a hearty chuckle from you clowns.

Never change 14, never change...

[Breakbeat]

It's not feasible, despite society's insistence, to feel included everywhere, at all times. Sometimes you won't feel included. Oh, well.

I dunno what else to say. That is life. Trying to carve out a niche into which you fit, in any random situation, sometimes doesn't make sense.

Exempli gratia, trying to shoe-horn 2020-esque "inclusive pronouns" into speech styles best classified as Victorian - if we absolutely must draw a real-world parallel.

In the 1890s, folks used non-inclusive pronouns all day, every day. Therefore, a modern writer trying to emulate Victorian speech won't use "humankind," they'll use "mankind," or "man."

[Anvaire]

As others have sad, Man has been used to refer to humans for a long time. There isnt really a way to express it in another way without altering the meaning. You could say change man to human, But in the context of ffxiv there are no "humans" you cant use races as at this point there was only one. And even if you did alter that specific point, changing he to they would foster the same issue you have called out. In essence its not specific to gender. Its colloquial depiction that has been used in context.

It arises from that strange thing in language where a word can come to mean mulitple things (Light being an example) in the case of "man" it does mean male human but it also means a human being of either sex; a person.

I do understand why you feel its off, but i dont think theres an easy alternative. Ultimately, the dialogue flows really well here because of the context in what Venat is saying. Changing some words would mean the same thing, but also make it a little clunky. Ultimately it comes down to historic use of the word.

[Stepjam]

I get what you are getting at and I'm generally all for singular they/them. That said, I feel like for something as dramatic and "poetic" as that line, singular they/them would feel awkward. I'm okay with "he" being used here. Hell, I'd be okay if it were "she". Singular "they" feels more casual and not quite right for the scene.