Job action combos one button

[Saraide]

yet you wonder why I bring up oGCDs in connection to GCDs.
I'm starting to think you don't optimize rotation

I mean it sounds like you're just trying to deflect.

[Ransu]

I mean it sounds like you're just trying to deflect.

I have to agree with him. It really does sound like you don't optimize your rotations. Collapsing abilities similar to pvp wouldn't even work for most of the melee jobs. It would actually make the flow of combat janky, or worse they would have to simplify things even more to make it work. Either way, the entire concept is a terrible idea.

[Saraide]

I have to agree with him. It really does sound like you don't optimize your rotations. Collapsing abilities similar to pvp wouldn't even work for most of the melee jobs. It would actually make the flow of combat janky, or worse they would have to simplify things even more to make it work. Either way, the entire concept is a terrible idea.

What? My entire point was never about oGCDs, just about combo collapsing itself (like is the thread's topic). I am still confused as to why oGCDs and positionals were even brought up as counter in the first place. Did I ever claim they require no attention or that keeping up your combo is the only thing? If so I would like you to point that out to me so I can clear up a misunderstanding.

I find this a very weird leap in logic you have there tbh: I doubt that the people who want combo collapsing are interested in rotation optimization therefore I definitely dont optimize my rotation.

[Mikey_R]

I believe I was one of the first to mention positionals, reason being, you can keep track of when you need positionals by knowing where you are in the combo just from what separate buttons you have been pressing. You know what your next GCD is once you press hotkey 'A' and that it needs Y positional, so you can plan. By consolidating buttons, you lose that way of tracking where you are in your combo.

Now, I never used it as an excuse as to have button consolidation in or not (in fact, IIRC, I mentioned having it in as an option) it was just something to consider as to why button consolidation is not always better and it is more of a case by case basis based on the player.

[Shurrikhan]

I believe I was one of the first to mention positionals, reason being, you can keep track of when you need positionals by knowing where you are in the combo just from what separate buttons you have been pressing. You know what your next GCD is once you press hotkey 'A' and that it needs Y positional, so you can plan. By consolidating buttons, you lose that way of tracking where you are in your combo.

Now, I never used it as an excuse as to have button consolidation in or not (in fact, IIRC, I mentioned having it in as an option) it was just something to consider as to why button consolidation is not always better and it is more of a case by case basis based on the player.

Sure, but let's put that in its fuller context.

Things that tell you where to be:

• The icon of the skill you last hit.
• The flashing icon of your combo skill currently available to be hit.
• The animation of the skill you last hit.
• The SFX of the skill you last hit.
• Your coinciding (de)buff timings.
• Your coinciding CDs, when rotation is consistent.
• Time (i.e., in GCDs) since last action X.
• The button you last pressed.*
• The button your about to press.
• Etc.

While you might appear to lose 2 of those 8+ surrounding means of tracking, it's actually only 1; even when consolidated, the "previous GCD's button-press" --during which point most players begin positioning for next GCD anyways, rather than noticing where to go only once in the gap between GCDs-- still provides tactile cues for any positionals in the following GCD. Let me explain.

Consider any ST combo. We can start, for instance, with Samurai and go one from there.

Its consolidated combos would be Yukikaze, Gekko, and Kasha, but note that they all share the same 1st step. As such, the points at which those combos diverge already cue one into any upcoming positional. Going from any of three keys for the first GCD to --in effect-- Yukikaze, pre-Kasha, or pre-Gekko, one still has the prior button press to tell them where to be.

The same applies to DRG, which splits at Disembowel and Vorpal. Taking one's first choice one way or the other already sets one up for either Any-Flank-Rear (via Vorpal) or Rear-Rear-Flank (via Disembowel).

Ninja, alone, is the outlier to this, and largely due just to the removal of 2nd-GCD Shadowfang (turned into Sonic Break-lite in 6.1 and then removed in EW), and only in the sense that one can decide which path to take later. For those who want those tactile cues, though, hitting the uniquely pre-Aeolian key (Gust Blade before Aeolian, within the consolidated Aeolian combo) or pre-Armor Crush key (Gust Blade before AC, within the consolidated AC combo) actually provides a less ambiguous tactile cue than the separate Gust Blade.

To put it another way, even if you could only track your combo progress based on which button you just pressed, consolidated combos would still offer as much or more cues as to where you next need to be. Even if you move from button B only ever after button A (which would require particular jobs, pre-consolidation), making B a unique cue, and you move to button B only because you just hit A (rather than because you're tracking your progress), consolidation still provides those cues.

tl;dr: There are further tactile cues that come with unconsolidated combos, no doubt, but because of at what steps those positionals are located and how those consolidated combos work, there's virtually zero advantage to positioning from having unconsolidated combos.

For my part, even if/when playing drunk as all hell, consolidated or otherwise, I track where I need to be next the GCD the moment from hearing the previous GCD (Gust Blade, Disembowel, Vorpal, Jinpu, Shifu, etc.) and via the gauges and/or status effects. Consolidation has zero impact on my ability to position immediately, accurately, and reliably.

[hagare]

What? My entire point was never about oGCDs, just about combo collapsing itself (like is the thread's topic). I am still confused as to why oGCDs and positionals were even brought up as counter in the first place. Did I ever claim they require no attention or that keeping up your combo is the only thing? If so I would like you to point that out to me so I can clear up a misunderstanding.

I find this a very weird leap in logic you have there tbh: I doubt that the people who want combo collapsing are interested in rotation optimization therefore I definitely dont optimize my rotation.

hey, just my bias
you do you

[Saraide]

hey, just my bias
you do you

Yea please explain your bias a little bit more, honesty goes a long way in understanding each other.

[hagare]

Yea please explain your bias a little bit more, honesty goes a long way in understanding each other.

nah.
I could write a paragraph of explanation. But that won't do any good.
you just do you.

[Saraide]

nah.
I could write a paragraph of explanation. But that won't do any good.
you just do you.

I will do me and not believe you that you could, have a nice day.

[hagare]

I will do me and not believe you that you could, have a nice day.

cool
have a nice day