Job action combos one button

[Shurrikhan]

The problem with making it optional is it won't stay optional. At least not in a functional sense.... players who dislike combo consolidation... [will] eventually be forced into it as new buttons are added and none are removed.

This presumes that any decrease to present button count would necessitate that new button-consuming actions must fill the then savable spaces. While I wouldn't be opposed to that, it runs contrary to trends since Heavensward, which have usually seen increasingly less depth included per button and have been increasingly less accepting of higher button counts, even to the point of removing actual and more integral depth (e.g., Monk's ability to position once each per stanceless DoT period) to try to remain within a "comfortable" button total.

The dev team isn't going to design a whole system specifically for combo consolidation only to also prune out old abilities.

First, it's not a new system. We've had it since Stormblood.

Second, so what? At worst, those who refuse to consolidate go from, say, some 24 buttons to 27. That's hardly damning to those who like their buttons or consequent finger drift.

Admittedly, though, if this was all left completely to player option, such could require some new design (or, just no longer purposely putting barriers in the way of macro functionality), but that'd also mean that a player could set their GCDs to go 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 as they do Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, respectively, even while not wasting any keys (with, say, Fell Cleave and Decimate simply moving around based on combo progress).

A new system could allow for that "hit different button per step" engagement, while a 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 for each respective combo would, in fact, be a 3-expansion-old system ready for implementation.

So which is it? The system you're complaining about wouldn't have to be developed, while any system that would need development could address your exact concern.

And please don't argue, "they'll be able to add new abilities if they consolidation combos!" Look at Summoner. Just... look at it. They had a new slate to work with; an entirely fresh canvas. Look how many buttons it got. Do you really think they'll give Warrior two full combos or replace the 6-7 buttons Dragoon loses? I guarantee they won't.

Then where is your first argument going? If there's little to no chance of SE filling that space saved with new buttons for those who use that option, how does that "option" break down into a "requirement" over increased button count?

I don't mean to "got ya!" or whatnot here, but it can't be both, so which is our predominant fear -- that (A) jobs will get more complex and thus make the option no longer an option, or (B) that the option will remain as much an option (and simply that, with it becoming more obvious that there are no unique affordances to having those separate buttons for rigid combos, fewer people will feel inclined to favor that bit of extra memory aid over button efficiency and thereby depopularize something you prefer, even if it still remains truly an option)?

[ForteNightshade]

This presumes that any decrease to present button count would necessitate that new button-consuming actions must fill the then savable spaces. While I wouldn't be opposed to that, it runs contrary to trends since Heavensward, which have usually seen increasingly less depth included per button and have been increasingly less accepting of higher button counts, even to the point of removing actual and more integral depth (e.g., Monk's ability to position once each per stanceless DoT period) to try to remain within a "comfortable" button total.

While that may be the case, several jobs already won't gain much space even if combos where consolidated, thus any new additions come 7.0 will start pushing people towards it if implemented. A job like say, Ninja or Gunbreaker aren't saving all that much space. Which means they'll eventually be squeezed into it as new abilities are added over time. Regardless, this is more in response to people who insist if combos were consolidated, they'll suddenly add in new combos for tanks; more DPS for healers and etc. A lot of people who do ask for this often believe it'll pave the way for added depth and not simply less buttons with little else. If it actually led to depth, I'd be more open to it.

First, it's not a new system. We've had it since Stormblood.

Second, so what? At worst, those who refuse to consolidate go from, say, some 24 buttons to 27. That's hardly damning to those who like their buttons or consequent finger drift.

It is for PvP. If the transition were simple enough to move over, I suspect they would have done so already.

As for caring? Well, all the people who dislike combo consolidation. I'll throw that back at you. Who cares if you find 123 pointless? At the end of the day, we're essentially arguing preference.

(A) jobs will get more complex and thus make the option no longer an option, or (B) that the option will remain as much an option (and simply that, with it becoming more obvious that there are no unique affordances to having those separate buttons for rigid combos, fewer people will feel inclined to favor that bit of extra memory aid over button efficiency and thereby depopularize something you prefer, even if it still remains truly an option)?

You neglected a third option where some jobs that are already squeezed even with combo consolidation are inevitably forced into a system they don't want because new buttons are continuously added and now there isn't a reason to prune away any. You're also assuming people are simply unaware combos aren't unique per se and just don't realize they can condensed. Most are. They simply don't like the idea.

[Shurrikhan]

You neglected a third option where some jobs that are already squeezed even with combo consolidation are inevitably forced into a system they don't want because new buttons are continuously added and now there isn't a reason to prune away any. You're also assuming people are simply unaware combos aren't unique per se and just don't realize they can condensed. Most are. They simply don't like the idea.

I'm making no such assumption. I have simply noted that the evidence thus far points to any consolidated spaces not being filled by new skills or other reasons for consolidation ignored on the mere basis that some players already reduced their button counts.

It is for PvP. If the transition were simple enough to move over, I suspect they would have done so already.

If it's something that the devs want to do regardless, and somehow instead a combo of IDs X, Y, and Z cannot behave like those of A, B, and C (despite PvP skills separating from PvE skills only when PvP was equalized across level brackets), then how can one make the claim that consolidation would be "un-XIV-like"?

As for caring? Well, all the people who dislike combo consolidation. I'll throw that back at you. Who cares if you find 123 pointless? At the end of the day, we're essentially arguing preference.

No, we're arguing options. If your preference can exist only by removing any possibility of others meeting their own preferences --i.e., your preference must forever trump all others-- then we're arguing the space for options. I'm arguing to have relevant options, while thus far you've argued that any such option be barred.

Your preference is met and could still be met with options. Others' are not and cannot be met without such an option. The trick here is that you then add that your choice might, if things go in precisely your hypothesized direction (Yoshida suddenly decides to no longer renovate existing job abilities with further expansions and that jobs should have more --button-consuming-- depth) might devalue your choice and thus others should have literally zero choice.

That's not just an argument for the superiority of your preference, but that it should be the only one supported or available to players.