Job action combos one button

[hagare]

We'd just have less buttons to press.

less buttons, same APM.
Instead of pressing 123 you go 111
you still have to do it three times.
Less bloat means easier hotbar management.

[Shurrikhan]

The problem with making it optional is it won't stay optional. At least not in a functional sense.... players who dislike combo consolidation... [will] eventually be forced into it as new buttons are added and none are removed.

This presumes that any decrease to present button count would necessitate that new button-consuming actions must fill the then savable spaces. While I wouldn't be opposed to that, it runs contrary to trends since Heavensward, which have usually seen increasingly less depth included per button and have been increasingly less accepting of higher button counts, even to the point of removing actual and more integral depth (e.g., Monk's ability to position once each per stanceless DoT period) to try to remain within a "comfortable" button total.

The dev team isn't going to design a whole system specifically for combo consolidation only to also prune out old abilities.

First, it's not a new system. We've had it since Stormblood.

Second, so what? At worst, those who refuse to consolidate go from, say, some 24 buttons to 27. That's hardly damning to those who like their buttons or consequent finger drift.

Admittedly, though, if this was all left completely to player option, such could require some new design (or, just no longer purposely putting barriers in the way of macro functionality), but that'd also mean that a player could set their GCDs to go 1-2-3 and 1-2-4 as they do Storm's Path or Storm's Eye, respectively, even while not wasting any keys (with, say, Fell Cleave and Decimate simply moving around based on combo progress).

A new system could allow for that "hit different button per step" engagement, while a 1-1-1 or 2-2-2 for each respective combo would, in fact, be a 3-expansion-old system ready for implementation.

So which is it? The system you're complaining about wouldn't have to be developed, while any system that would need development could address your exact concern.

And please don't argue, "they'll be able to add new abilities if they consolidation combos!" Look at Summoner. Just... look at it. They had a new slate to work with; an entirely fresh canvas. Look how many buttons it got. Do you really think they'll give Warrior two full combos or replace the 6-7 buttons Dragoon loses? I guarantee they won't.

Then where is your first argument going? If there's little to no chance of SE filling that space saved with new buttons for those who use that option, how does that "option" break down into a "requirement" over increased button count?

I don't mean to "got ya!" or whatnot here, but it can't be both, so which is our predominant fear -- that (A) jobs will get more complex and thus make the option no longer an option, or (B) that the option will remain as much an option (and simply that, with it becoming more obvious that there are no unique affordances to having those separate buttons for rigid combos, fewer people will feel inclined to favor that bit of extra memory aid over button efficiency and thereby depopularize something you prefer, even if it still remains truly an option)?

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

I love you, Shurrikhan, and everything you've said, but I'd just like to add something

Who in this thread has even insinuated pressing 123 instead of 111 is harder?

I know it isn't your argument, but the fact is : it is. For many people out there. There are loads of people in this thread that argued that concatenated combos would be dumbing down the game, and everybody, including you, agrees it wouldn't make it easier for them to use those. But there are people out there that have arthritis, psychomotricity issues, and whatnot. The argument over "if it would be more comfortable for the average joe" is already a mess because you're all pretending you'll be forced to play that way, or, and I don't know what's less probable, that you'll quit if it is implemented, but there are people out there that need it to play harder content.

Therefore, it should be implemented, whatever you think about it.

[Shurrikhan]

I know it isn't your argument, but the fact is : it is. For many people out there.

Sorry to interject, but this point may want reiteration? Forte needn't answer for others' positions, even any immediately surrounding their own.

Just a note: What if the term were instead "sand down" or "shallow out" or "change the vibes of" instead of "dumb down"? Would that change the tenor of how your argument interacts with Forte's, more specifically?

My point being... what was lost doesn't necessarily have to be difficulty. And while that "something other than difficulty" feature in changing button presses per step isn't a factor of enjoyment for me, and I'd favor having the option regardless (since I do think it would in fact remain an option so long as players didn't read into the change more than is intended by it, on which Yoshida can have great effect if he just made plain what he has planned for it), I can see why that'd feature still be notable for others.

:: Sorry, again, for the tangential critique. Please do critique me, as well, if I seemingly miss a step.

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

No, just to be clear, I didn't adress that argument at Forte, hence the "I know it isn't your argument". I'm just stating something else to add to this, using a quote of them as a starting point. No hard feeling whatsoever.

[Saimeren]

I'm out of easy reached keys as is. I know I could better utilize my off gcd ability if I wasn't having to find my mouse cruiser only to click there set to alt or ctl

Let's say you use 1,2,3,4,q,e,z,x,c,v,f,r,t

That's 13 buttons directly around your left hand. Then you have ALT, Shift and Control. So that's 39 keys. You can also make a macro to switch to a hidden bar behind your main bar for an extra 12 slots on the same keybinds.

You have access to 51 different keybinds with just those few buttons.

You're not out of keybinds.

[Kohl]

What is it with mmo players and their button fetish...

We only got 10 fingers!

Right? I don’t get it…

[Kohl]

Yes. But you're still implying the lack of perceived button...

Nope, still really am not implying any of the things you keep flinching at.
On a controller? Yeah… maybe kinda, but I also use hot bars for overflow items, so not really.
Whatever…

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Let's say you use 1,2,3,4,q,e,z,x,c,v,f,r,t

That's 13 buttons directly around your left hand. Then you have ALT, Shift and Control. So that's 39 keys. You can also make a macro to switch to a hidden bar behind your main bar for an extra 12 slots on the same keybinds.

You have access to 51 different keybinds with just those few buttons.

You're not out of keybinds.

I have very large hands, pressing alt and another key at the same time every 10 or 20 seconds is really painful if I play for more than 20 or thirty minutes. Imagine if you have arthritis, sclerosis, or whatever.

I see no way pressing ctrl + something is not hurtful after some time, be it for my hands, or for people with smaller hands. So that's 26. Take into account that, because of my hands, pressing x or c while moving will be hurtful after some time, that's 22, and that's more than most classes have.

I still have no issue because I have a keyboard that enables me to use f-keys easily, but what works for you may not work for others. And then again, it's an option, it doesn't take anything from you.

[Saimeren]

I have very large hands, pressing alt and another key at the same time every 10 or 20 seconds is really painful if I play for more than 20 or thirty minutes. Imagine if you have arthritis, sclerosis, or whatever.

I see no way pressing ctrl + something is not hurtful after some time, be it for my hands, or for people with smaller hands. So that's 26. Take into account that, because of my hands, pressing x or c while moving will be hurtful after some time, that's 22, and that's more than most classes have.

I still have no issue because I have a keyboard that enables me to use f-keys easily, but what works for you may not work for others. And then again, it's an option, it doesn't take anything from you.

If you have small hands you have the alt and ctrl keys. If you have big hands you have the function keys.

You also have a hidden bar behind your main bar that shares your main bars keybinds. Making a small macro to switch to that bar isn't difficult.

Heck, if I'm not mistaken you can do that with any hidden bar and any displayed bar. The macro takes up a slot on each bar, but instead of having 12 active keybinds for spells you now have 22 on one bar with only 11 keybinds.

Do that with your shift hot bar as well and you now have 44 open slots on 22 keybinds.

This is what I do. I have a bar set up with normal keybinds that feel good for me to use. I then have a second hidden bar behind it that I switch to using Caps Lock. (Mind you, I had to macro my keyboard to change caps to one of my NumLock keys because the game doesn't allow you to bind to Caps for some reason.)

And then I have a third hot bar next to my main one with all of my primary keybinds with shift modifiers.

And then a fourth bar with misc keybinds that aren't used every minute.

I have 34 active slots on 23 keybinds. (Half of which are just shift modifiers.) Plus a few misc keybinds on top of that.

It's not all that hard to find room if you get creative.