Job action combos one button

[Shurrikhan]

If there's anything worse than doing a 1 button rotation is this argument.

Is there another way to read...

Press 1-2-3 is inherently more fun than pressing 1-1-1. It doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated

? Either hitting more buttons than is currently necessary is thereby "inherently more fun," or it is not.

But, fine, let us assume that the claim (1-2-3 being inherently more fun than 1-1-1 even when they have the same number of separable actions) carries an implied parameter -- that this only works "if forced (to 1-2-3, rather than 1-1-1)." We'll adjust the analogy:

You have Glare I, Glare II, and Glare III. Glare I does 290. Glare II does 310 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. Glare III does 330 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. The combo cannot be broken by actions, thereby retaining the old functionality, and over time they amount to the exact same ppgcd as before. They also have the same animation, since "it doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated."

Is that "inherently more fun" button-flow of now being obliged to go 1-2-3 worth the added button cost? Would you give up 2 existing actions, and therein kit control, for those extra two buttons to be spent on what still amounts to a single, inseparable decision?

That's essentially what's forced onto any combo-heavy kit right now.

At least it's a reason for three individual actions to still exist.

No series of actions as would be demarked by a PvP combo have ever each had more than one individual action, as there has never been any remotely viable reason to restart or rush a combo. But even consolidated, a combo still has just as many non-individual actions as before. Button count =/= action count.

Unconsolidated, a Chaos Thrust combo includes flat damage, a damage buff, and a DoT, flat damage, and flat damage with a Draconian Fire proc -- each on a respective action in its own GCD. Each action takes a button-press. The single path of action, however, takes 5 buttons.

Consolidated, a Chaos Thrust combo would include flat damage, a damage buff, and a DoT, flat damage, and flat damage with a Draconian Fire proc -- each on a respective action in its own GCD. Each action would take a button-press. The single path of action, however, would take only a single button.

Holding onto that pretense of complexity, as compared to actually making use of individual actions as per Monk or consolidating them as per the Gnashing Fang combo, is just bloat. Asking that every non-individual action, too, each get its own button is basically just giving the middle finger to anyone who wants more actual depth on a combo-based job.

Either make them individual actions (as on Monk) or make them individual decisions (as per Gnashing Fang).

[AnotherPerson]

Is there another way to read...? Either hitting more buttons that is currently necessary is thereby "inherently more fun," or it is not.

But, fine, let us assume that the claim implied that this only works "if forced." We'll adjust the analogy:

You have Glare I, Glare II, and Glare III. Glare I does 290. Glare II does 310 if comboed -- otherwise, 100. Glare III does 330 if comboed -- otherwise 100. The combo cannot be broken by actions, thereby retaining the old functionality, and over time they amount to the exact same ppgcd as before. They also have the same animation, since "it doesn't matter if it's the same skill repeated."

Is that "inherently more fun" button-flow of now being obliged to go 1-2-3 worth the added button cost? Would you give up 2 existing actions, and therein kit control, for those extra two buttons to be spent on what still amounts to a single, inseparable decision?

That's essentially what's forced onto any combo-heavy kit right now.

Combos that doesn't offer much isn't that much more fun. But, if you look at it from another perspective, say Lv 1-29:
Say you just have 1 button as your skill rotation, and only one button. From level 1 to 29.

Do you feel a sense of progression? Do you feel like anything has changed from Satasha to Hakkuke Manor? Nope. Now imagine you go to level 50 and your main rotation is still 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1. All you're doing until then is just watching the enemy... dodging the mechanic... and then monotonously mashing the 1 key on auto-pilot until something new changes. You're not inherently have to spend brain power on the thought process - whether you're on the 2nd combo or whether you need to reset the combo because you're on the 3rd combo action. You just... press 1 until the fight's over.

Therein lies the difference between spamming Glare x100 and having a 3 button combo.

I completely agree with you - consolidating combo skills to create room for more INTERACTIVE skills and synergies will be great. However, that's not what was addressed on the thread. Nothing was mentioned about consolidating skills to make room for more interesting skills. In that case, it's more preferable to keep the current system with a 1-2-3 combo than without.

[Acece]

I can see it maybe for ninja and reaper but I couldn't see it work for monk, sam, and maybe drg. It would suck to lose the flexible rotation of sam and monk, for drg idk I like pressing 8 part combo cause it makes my brain active and I would probably lose my place for positionals.

[Jijifli]

Combos that doesn't offer much isn't that much more fun. But, if you look at it from another perspective, say Lv 1-29:
Say you just have 1 button as your skill rotation, and only one button. From level 1 to 29.

Do you feel a sense of progression? Do you feel like anything has changed from Satasha to Hakkuke Manor? Nope.

I just wanna put my boomer pants on to remind the class that this literally was DRG in its original state. You pressed the exact same key, with no combo or positional check, until level 26. It was absolutely mind numbing to get any sync to that level on drg while leveling it, like if I did a roulette in leveling and got Halatali. It was already bad enough I got Halatali, now it's worse that my button line was reduced to a single key press.

Now, imagine that's it, like mentioned in the part I cut out. You're just gonna fall asleep. I know, because I fall asleep.

[Hysterior]

Play healer: One single button to push for each GCD and weave all the rest of your skills in between

[ArcaviusGreyashe]

Thinking having different buttons to press for the 1-2-3 combo is what makes a class interesting or hard honestly says a lot about y'all.

[ForteNightshade]

I'm not sure why we ought focus on removing AoE | ST options before combos. At least they provide a degree of choice (though less so when the ST option is only 10% stronger than the AoE, as per Bloodletter and Rain of Death, etc.), unlike separate combo GCDs.

Because the combos offer some engagement, albeit it mildly so. At the very least, they break up the monotony of spamming the same button. AoEs don't provide any choice? They're entirely binary. You press Orogeny at 3+ targets; Upheaval otherwise. Any other decision is wrong. The difference is you hardly ever press the AoE equivalents in content that matters. So they hardly see use outside dungeons.

I've said before, if I thought they would replace combos with something new, be it several additional combos, new sequenced buttons or something. I'd be a lot more open to the idea. If it's literally just reducing say, Dragoon, to a job primarily spamming 1 and 2, I'd much prefer the current system.

[Imoye]

I wish people would stop with the button "bloat" myth. There is no actual button bloat in this game. Most jobs don't have that many buttons. I had far more abilities on my bars on my priest back in Wrath of the Lich King than any current job in FFXIV. Blizzard thought this was a problem and strived to reduce "bloat". The result was mind-numbingly boring classes that play themselves.

Yes, there are some buttons that are not very useful. But if SE wants to remove buttons because they are "redundant" or something like that, then a replacement ability that is more useful needs to be added IMHO. If you want to play something braindead you already have a bunch of options. New SMN being a prime example of a one-button job. Knock yourself out.

TL;DR: Be careful what you wish for.

[Ilisidi]

The one button combo set up is in PVP. I don't like it there and don't want it in the PVE. It throws my rotation off since I find it difficult to discern when in the rotation I am. With them across my keyboard, I know when I am simply by which finger and position I was on last. It's also physically easier, since it involves several fingers and positions, instead of repeatedly putting the load on one finger and position. Same when I'm on controller, I have mine set up to flow between engaging both hands somewhat. That's physically less taxing for me and the different motion pattern help me remember my rotation.

[Eelanos]

Hm... I think it's a matter of time until they do that, but I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing.
See, the thing people is scared about is condensing the 1-2-3 rotation into one button and everything else staying the same, but I feel condensing 1-2-3 buttons into one and adding new stuff to do that's not a 2 minute cooldown buff could be beneficial. Overall, the number of buttons stay largely the same, but you get to do more stuff with the same number of buttons.
Let's say you have your 1-2-3 condensed, then you can have combo buttons that can only be activated or get empowered while under step 1, step 2 or step 3. This would solve the issue healers have, because healers don't have different things to do to attack, they just have 1 button, not a condensed rotation.
RDM is a good example of this. After finishing your 1-2-3 combo, your spells flip and change to other type of spells: Instacast finishers. They feel much different from the original casted spells they substitute, and yet they don't add a single extra button to the rotation.
Using convertible "flip" spells can condense rotations greatly and still feel fun and nice to play. Heck, they could do that with 3 different buttons and make a more dynamic rotation. Something that feels closer to NIN's mudras.
Taking RDM as an example again, imagine Displacement and Engagement disappearing and being flip skills of Melee3 and Melee1 respectively. You can then add 2 more spells to the game and the number of buttons stays the same while still preserving everything the RDM had.