So, about Zenos... (SPOILERS)

[Gemina]

If anything, dynamis makes it more likely he's dead. Everyone who knows of him wants him dead, zenos himself wants to be dead, everything dynamis has to act on says zenos is dead.

The devs can do what they want but the only way zenos comes back is if the devs retcon things and say he's back for reasons. I don't think that will sit well with anyone.

It would cheapen his exit, and I would prefer for Zenos' contrast to remain intact. A lot of fiction out there have a tendency to fumble at the goal line, and totally poo on what was otherwise an intriguing and thought provoking story arc. Zenos is kind of the opposite in that nearly his entire arc was 'meh', yet he totally brought it around in the end. All the while remaining consistent with his character. Never wavering from the "My first friend... my enemy." feelings he has for the WoL.

I think it could be cool to see him in an echo-vision of some sort. Perhaps even giving us a glint of his early training; likely besting his masters. As an active character though; just no. Please. I don't say that because I dislike him. The exact opposite.

[Soge01]

I'm additionally expecting that the thing is one of our shards after Yoshi not so subtly suggested such, which would give it a logical reason to start hounding us as well as a reason for why Zenos would've chosen that one in particular.

I feel like it might end up crossing over into the Source proper so we can kill it permanently because they've established that voidsent can't really die otherwise due to their souls simply returning to their bodies back in the void as long as they remain intact, rather then being sent to the Lifestream.

I thought his avatar was just some piece of Varis or something kept around or an avatar like ours, just leveled up and evolved.

Did Yoshi-P really subtly hint that thing might be one of our shards? :O

If anything, dynamis makes it more likely he's dead. Everyone who knows of him wants him dead, zenos himself wants to be dead, everything dynamis has to act on says zenos is dead.

The devs can do what they want but the only way zenos comes back is if the devs retcon things and say he's back for reasons. I don't think that will sit well with anyone.

Hmm, that be true. And if the WoL wanted him dead, too, then he's probably never coming back.

Unlike everyone else here, though, I'll miss our biggest fan. I hope we get to see him again one day reincarnated as a better person with a genuine passion for life and that he becomes one of our adventuring buddies.

Kind of like how Majin Buu from DBZ was reincarnated into Uub and became Goku's student.

Despite what he became, I personally think Zenos deserved a better life than what he was given. Despite himself being the prince of the Garlean Empire, he was treated as nothing more than a tool and something lesser since the day he was born by literally everyone around him.

Not even his own father would show him any sort of love and support. So despite what alot of the characters say about Zenos, like the Skulls in Ala Mhigo and Yotsyu in Othard, Zenos was pretty much shaped into the person he was by the people around him, his fellow Garleans. And so, despite it still being terrible, Zenos destroying Garlemad was ironic karma for how they treated him and I kind of don't blame him for his actions on that part either.

A monster isn't just created out of thin air. It's often the environment that shapes the man into what he is to become.

[Rymm]

Thoughts?

God, I hope he stays dead this time. He wasn't even a fun-to-hate villain, he was just so... blasé.

[KageTokage]

I thought his avatar was just some piece of Varis or something kept around or an avatar like ours, just leveled up and evolved.

Did Yoshi-P really subtly hint that thing might be one of our shards? :O

He said something along the lines of "it could be interesting if it turned out to be an alternate version of our WoL", which was prefaced with mention of how Zenos takes the whole "one and only friend" really seriously.

That made me think that given his ability to perceive soul color he could've realistically located our shard somehow and chosen it to serve as his avatar. Yoshi also recently mentioned that he couldn't go into specifics of how he became a reaper in the live letter Q&A so there's definitely something important about it.

Avatars are essentially just a manifestation of an actual voidsent's power being channeled from across the rift to us, but nonetheless possess enough of a connection to their pact-bearers to potentially seize control of them in a moment of weakness or their death.

[Hysorn]

Even though he can body hop, I hope he is dead-dead. Hoping he just gave up and said "Yep, I peaked, can't get any better than this fight."

[Aneshda]

I loved Zenos, atleast he said the truth and he gave a shit about what others thought.

[Bad_Luck]

Is he dead again? Because after the ending of Endwalker, I personally don\\\\'t think his dead. Just body? Sure! But the guy doesn\\\\'t need his body to still be alive. Ge\\\\'s practically an Ascian with his Resonant. So, unless he completely burnt all his aether, including the bit that sustains his life force in are final fight, I\\\\'m doubting he\\\\'s dead and I have a feeling he\\\\'ll return in an expansion or two through dynamism since he was left in that weird plane of it.

Thoughts?

Agreed, he made it out.

[Berteaux_Braumegain]

Only the WoL is saved by a deus ex machina, leaving Zenos dead, reviled and unmourned on the edge of the universe. Good riddance to the crazy stalker and his stupid prettyboy hair.

It's really weird to think that Zenos might be gone for good considering he's been in the story non-stop since (the final few minutes of) Heavensward.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if the writers brought him back, even though I really REALLY hope they don't.

[KaitoAsaha]

Hoping there's more of him down the lines. Wouldn't mind him being absent for the rest of EW, and then making a return on some other shard, where we're left to wonder if he's our Zenos or just some alternate world look alike.

Tldr; all in for some more Zenos. Lemme travel with Fordola, him, and some other potential threat.

[TaleraRistain]

After the way Yoshi-P imitated Neo from the Matrix in the Live Letter dodging Zenos questions, I'm pretty sure he's not dead. And Yoshi-P raised some interesting ideas on whether we saw what we thought we saw with his commentary that what we saw in Ultima Thule is shaped by our perceptions. I didn't play XI but from what I've heard described of what dynamis was there, it seems to fit that idea.

So it may not be a matter of bringing him back. Things may not have gone down how we think they did.