Garuda after patch

[Meatdawg]

You know what the problem is?

It takes zero skill to level 1-50
People either spam leves or get power leveled. They never get to flush out how to play their class as they level.

Bam, 50 hits and now all of a sudden you have no clue how to play your class and interact with others and not be the weak link to a 8 man party.

This is why PUG's (pick up groups) fail. You get 2 people that know what they are doing and 6 people trying it for the first time that have no idea how to properly play their class. You can't win with this setup. No matter how many times you try.

They then run to the forums to cry/qq about how hard content is, or unfair, or be forced to play x job when they have no freaking clue how to play the job/class they just got to 50 in under a week.

How about we make it hard to level to 50? Require people to learn some skill as they level up?

[Yves]

You know what the problem is?

It takes zero skill to level 1-50
People either spam leves or get power leveled. They never get to flush out how to play their class as they level.

Bam, 50 hits and now all of a sudden you have no clue how to play your class and interact with others and not be the weak link to a 8 man party.

This is why PUG's (pick up groups) fail. You get 2 people that know what they are doing and 6 people trying it for the first time that have no idea how to properly play their class. You can't win with this setup. No matter how many times you try.

They then run to the forums to cry/qq about how hard content is, or unfair, or be forced to play x job when they have no freaking clue how to play the job/class they just got to 50 in under a week.

How about we make it hard to level to 50? Require people to learn some skill as they level up?

I'm not so sure how accurate this statement is. Truth be told, most skills that you need to learn to use are North of level 40 or obtained in the first 10 levels. Also keep in mind that many skills are learned via the job quests. This means that there is a gap of 30 levels or more.

So I am not so confident that people don't learn how use/play jobs without grinding them forever. A more accurate statement would possibly be that people who respond to /sh are less likely to be heavily involved with static groups and therefore will have less experience on that specific content.

[Meatdawg]

I'm not so sure how accurate this statement is. Truth be told, most skills that you need to learn to use are North of level 40 or obtained in the first 10 levels. Also keep in mind that many skills are learned via the job quests. This means that there is a gap of 30 levels or more.

So I am not so confident that people don't learn how use/play jobs without grinding them forever. A more accurate statement would possibly be that people who respond to /sh are less likely to be heavily involved with static groups and therefore will have less experience on that specific content.

Just because you obtain the "useful" skills from 1-10 or 40-50 doesn't mean you understand how to use them in a group setup. There is nothing hard from 1-50, or that you can't do solo.

Finding a wolf party at level 40 so 5 hours later you can ding 50 doesn't help the problem either.

There needs to be way more mid-low level dungeons to encourage small to full parties to group up and play together. (And no I don't mean run it solo on your level 50 one time to get an achievement).

Content should be level capped, or scaled (50 joins and is scaled to level 30) so that team mechanics are being developed at early levels.

I have done a few PUG's to help some people get there AF armor in Darkhold and I have never seen such horrid play by level 50's before. No idea what the concept of "hate" control is, no idea how to dodge or position themselves in mechanics where you cant stand still and spam WS A-B. This isn't a leve... You cant just rush in and spam WS over and over and have a total disregard for your actions.

Normally they will die in under 10 seconds on ogre while the 3 of us that understand concepts kill it and raise them up. Even explaining the tactics doesn't help.

This system allows players to create an account today, and have a 50 with full AF by the end of the week who could have spent as little as an hour actually Playing his class. (PL anyone?)

Then they join and Ifrit/moogle/garuda/darkhold party and are floored that an encounter takes actual skill, attention, patience, teamwork, effort..... and promptly run to the forums to qq about lag (god forbid you prepare for a plume, astral flow, etc), difficulty, class stacking etc etc

This is my main issue with the game atm

[Yves]

Just because you obtain the "useful" skills from 1-10 or 40-50 doesn't mean you understand how to use them in a group setup. There is nothing hard from 1-50, or that you can't do solo.

Finding a wolf party at level 40 so 5 hours later you can ding 50 doesn't help the problem either.

There needs to be way more mid-low level dungeons to encourage small to full parties to group up and play together. (And no I don't mean run it solo on your level 50 one time to get an achievement).

Content should be level capped, or scaled (50 joins and is scaled to level 30) so that team mechanics are being developed at early levels. Conversely, by your reasoning every player who doesn't possess this "skill" would never succeed until they learned the job better. In reality, most players can beat CC/AV/DH/Ifrit/Moogle after one or two tries with voicechat. Moreover, those players appear "skilled" once they understand the fight.

I have done a few PUG's to help some people get there AF armor in Darkhold and I have never seen such horrid play by level 50's before. No idea what the concept of "hate" control is, no idea how to dodge or position themselves in mechanics where you cant stand still and spam WS A-B. This isn't a leve... You cant just rush in and spam WS over and over and have a total disregard for your actions.

Normally they will die in under 10 seconds on ogre while the 3 of us that understand concepts kill it and raise them up. Even explaining the tactics doesn't help.

This system allows players to create an account today, and have a 50 with full AF by the end of the week who could have spent as little as an hour actually Playing his class. (PL anyone?)

Then they join and Ifrit/moogle/garuda/darkhold party and are floored that an encounter takes actual skill, attention, patience, teamwork, effort..... and promptly run to the forums to qq about lag (god forbid you prepare for a plume, astral flow, etc), difficulty, class stacking etc etc

This is my main issue with the game atm

Get them on voicechat. We do that and it alleviates the problems you are talking about to a large extent. Again, this is a function of familiarity and not actual skill. I've seen great players fail in the same ways when content is new to them.

If what you are talking about was a function of skill then every top player would succeed immediately which isn't the case. Conversely, every player who didn't grind by your standards would fail until they "learned the job" which is also highly untrue. After one or two tries on voicechat they succeed and appear to be "highly skilled."

This isn't XI - there is minimal complexity to this game.

[Enfarious]

Just because you obtain the "useful" skills from 1-10 or 40-50 doesn't mean you understand how to use them in a group setup. There is nothing hard from 1-50, or that you can't do solo.

Finding a wolf party at level 40 so 5 hours later you can ding 50 doesn't help the problem either.

There needs to be way more mid-low level dungeons to encourage small to full parties to group up and play together. (And no I don't mean run it solo on your level 50 one time to get an achievement).

Content should be level capped, or scaled (50 joins and is scaled to level 30) so that team mechanics are being developed at early levels.

I have done a few PUG's to help some people get there AF armor in Darkhold and I have never seen such horrid play by level 50's before. No idea what the concept of "hate" control is, no idea how to dodge or position themselves in mechanics where you cant stand still and spam WS A-B. This isn't a leve... You cant just rush in and spam WS over and over and have a total disregard for your actions.

Normally they will die in under 10 seconds on ogre while the 3 of us that understand concepts kill it and raise them up. Even explaining the tactics doesn't help.

This system allows players to create an account today, and have a 50 with full AF by the end of the week who could have spent as little as an hour actually Playing his class. (PL anyone?)

Then they join and Ifrit/moogle/garuda/darkhold party and are floored that an encounter takes actual skill, attention, patience, teamwork, effort..... and promptly run to the forums to qq about lag (god forbid you prepare for a plume, astral flow, etc), difficulty, class stacking etc etc

This is my main issue with the game atm

And while alot of people don't want to admit it, the old school FFXI leveling system provided just that kind of time to experiment/learn/develop skills on a job before you wandered into EG content. Soloing/PLing/100k xp per hr pt spots from WARs Steel Cyclone spam doesn't make for great players. It doesn't make them bad, but it certainly leaves them under skilled and not 100% on how to play any job in a full party where it counts.