Another raid complaint

[Aword3213]

"The fact that a tank-only composition can still clear current content shows that healing requirements are too low."
"Sounds like a WAR problem to me!"

Not even surprised.

Not just healing requirements though, dps requirements are pretty low, too.

Healers are not the only role being excluded from tank-only comps.

[Jeeqbit]

Not just healing requirements though, dps requirements are pretty low, too.

Although this could all be to do with item level increases, which at least before the stat squish would always make a massive difference to the damage and healing requirements. The difference was between a tank needing a cooldown and a tank buster hardly needing any attention and between killing the boss during the enrage cast and killing it half-way through the fight.

[Curisu]

Meanwhile week 1 we had to mitigate every single AOE because otherwise our DPS would have died.

This is simply possible because the tanks are BiS and the fight don't have unpredictable mechanic's.

Nothing is broken, it is just a consequence of Tank's dealing a good bit of damage.

[ASkellington]

This is simply possible because the tanks are BiS and the fight don't have unpredictable mechanic's.

I find that to be pretty broken.

Why don't fights have healer checks? Like actual checks only healers can handle? Isn't that a [gasp] design flaw?

[Curisu]

I find that to be pretty broken.

Why don't fights have healer checks? Like actual checks only healers can handle? Isn't that a [gasp] design flaw?

There are, in p3s.

Also, what would you do? Increase the DMG?
Tanks with their high defensive stats don't care about it.

More incoming tank dmg?
A good group of tanks can just rotate the aggro so it would still be possible.

Increase incoming tank dmg even further?
Healer don't have the kit for a lot of single target healing and no one wants to spam cure 2.

Reducing tanks defensive stats?
A skilled BiS group would be able to do fights without tanks.

Reduce tank DMG?
That will reduce the tank playerbase and everyone would complain about long quene times.

Whatever you do, it will have more bad consequences then the current situation.

[ASkellington]

More incoming tank dmg?
A good group of tanks can just rotate the aggro so it would still be possible.

Increase incoming tank dmg even further?
Healer don't have the kit for a lot of single target healing and no one wants to spam cure 2.

I dunno a combination of the two of these things if done right could be interesting.

We have 2 tanks and 2 healers in a raid. Why not make use of it?

Also, SE believes we should be dipping into GCD heals, can't do that when I have 2 charges of CI, ED, and and charge of Exaltation making me throw out Cure/Benefic 2 or preshielding a nice meaty hit every so often would be a nice change of pace.

...Or they could gut some healing tools healer has and give us actual support and make mechanics for that. Esuna is a thing... and yet the only thing we use it on is a removable doom because DoT damage is easily swept away by a regen.

[Vortuna]

Acting like most people out there could do the same.

[Yeol]

You really think its reasonable that eight warriors cleared a savage raid?

Savage really hasn't been the Same since Alexander: The Creator (Savage). The first two floors of Savage are not as hard as people think. They are slightly above extreme difficulty. DPS checks are very forgiving.

Also, the Savage fights are designed to be cleared on release with crafted gear. So can you imagine how easier things get once people have BiS? With BiS you take less damage, deal more damage and skip mechanics because the boss dies faster.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

To point some things out about the P2s clear:

-Even with full BiS on everyone and no deaths/damage downs, they were killing it during the enrage cast.
-This is especially egregious when the 2 members I could ID their names on a certain website show they're 99% damage WARs. probably a good chance most of them are too. Meaning even with an incredibly stacked team of amazing WARs, they still barely beat the enrage. Meaning no random group would ever stand a chance at this.
-P2s has no role based mechanics, meaning an 8 WAR comp is also a lot more viable than say on p3s, where you will spend 90% of your runs wiping to the blackfire due to blackfire positions being completely random. This is also without factoring in later the RNG of the stack version of exponential gloryplume, where every WAR will have to split up since its completely random who they'll go on and must be mitigated hard to solo soak, also making the dps check even harder since multiple WARs will lose uptime.

With all due respect, who really cares about what people do when everyone has BiS? 99.99999999% of PUGs will never be able to accomplish the same thing, and these kinds of things will never happen in entry ilvl and the existence of needing dps in lower ilvl effectively mandates the existence of healers so you aren't forced to bring PLDs spamming clemency for huge damage losses. People calling for balancing changes over what the top 0.01% do for fun to test their absolute limits is such a confusing line of thinking for me.

Damage output is fine for what difficulty they want savage to be at. The actual problem is the lack of engaging healer offensive options to keep them engaged during times they don't need to heal.

[Saraide]

This is the video for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRbvZJ-EU0U

It ended up being really close. What we are seeing here is that P2S does not have any untelegraphed role mechanics, that they massively outgear the fight, that incoming damage is low and that the dps check over the fight is also not that high and I'm not trying to downplay the skill of those 8 players, what they did is pretty sick. This is an extreme edge case. You cant design around all of those.

I appreciate the person recording the video having spell effects on because by god it is fell cleave time.