Another raid complaint

[Gemina]

Obviously the savage fights need to be tuned up, but I am not seeing an exacerbation of the healer issue if that is the point of the thread, especially if the fight was undertuned on purpose as was stated. IOW, this is just a different way of pointing out the healer's lack of engagement issue.

Again, I don't think Yoshi was being dismissive with saying to try ultimate. Considering that they have undertuned this current tier, and savage runners will have to wait until 6.2 for the next one, you guys kind of don't have much choice, right? Is it also possible they undertune the fights for those new to savage raids? Just tossing some haymakers.

[ZedxKayn]

Again, I don't think Yoshi was being dismissive with saying to try ultimate. Considering that they have undertuned this current tier, and savage runners will have to wait until 6.2 for the next one, you guys kind of don't have much choice, right?

The thing is that for the entirety of ShB, people have complained about the healer engagement, which he completely dodged to instead talk about difficulty. But as far as difficulty for the healer role goes, right now the SB Ultimates are absolutely trivialized by gear, and even for TEA, if you somewhat know what you're doing with your job (which honestly, what would someone clueless about their job be doing in Ultimate?) you're still spamming DPS GCDs 80% of the time, and it's really not that engaging. What makes Ultimate difficult is that it's a marathon that depending on who you're raiding with can very much be mentally straining, it is a big commitment that no one should be told to make to be engaged by their job. Additionally in Ultimate, a mechanic being failed = one shot or wipe 95% of the time. You can't heal a one shot, you can't heal a wipe.
On top of that, healers who complain about healer engagement likely either have already cleared and farmed the Ultimates we currently have, especially since we had a loooot of time in ShB to do that, or they very understandably chose not to participate in such content. It's also a really really tone deaf thing to say when we haven't had an Ultimate in nearly 2 years and none of them allow healers to play with their lv90 kit.

Is it also possible they undertune the fights for those new to savage raids? Just tossing some haymakers.

At this point especially P1S is only savage in name, as far as difficulty goes, it's an extreme fight. I don't really vibe with giving savage extreme-tier difficulty for the sake of "accessibility", people sign up for savage to do savage, not extreme.

[Gemina]

The thing is that for the entirety of ShB, people have complained about the healer engagement, which he completely dodged to instead talk about difficulty. But as far as difficulty for the healer role goes, right now the SB Ultimates are absolutely trivialized by gear, and even for TEA, if you somewhat know what you're doing with your job (which honestly, what would someone clueless about their job be doing in Ultimate?) you're still spamming DPS GCDs 80% of the time, and it's really not that engaging. What makes Ultimate difficult is that it's a marathon that depending on who you're raiding with can very much be mentally straining, it is a big commitment that no one should be told to make to be engaged by their job. Additionally in Ultimate, a mechanic being failed = one shot or wipe 95% of the time. You can't heal a one shot, you can't heal a wipe.

I get what you're saying here, but I think he was referring to the new ultimate coming in 6.1x? That would be the next step up. But you also kind of dodged the point. If the current savage tier is not engaging, then where else is there to go other than the new ultimate? I also wonder why ultimate is being dismissed before even running it? That would be like me saying that the difficulty on EX needs to be raised because I am not engaged enough, and then someone tells me to run savage; and my response to that is, "no". Just tune up EX, or better yet; just overhaul healing, or nerf tank sustainability.

That is kind of the angle I am seeing things from.

On top of that, healers who complain about healer engagement likely either have already cleared and farmed the Ultimates we currently have, especially since we had a loooot of time in ShB to do that, or they very understandably chose not to participate in such content. It's also a really really tone deaf thing to say when we haven't had an Ultimate in nearly 2 years and none of them allow healers to play with their lv90 kit.

I would hope so. Otherwise their arguments hold the same weight as the example I set for myself above.

At this point especially P1S is only savage in name, as far as difficulty goes, it's an extreme fight. I don't really vibe with giving savage extreme-tier difficulty for the sake of "accessibility", people sign up for savage to do savage, not extreme.

I agree and disagree. I think it's a good thing to try and open the more difficult fights to players who are a little on the edge about doing them or not. But I also think that these encounters should live up to the name. When I reflect on older discussions, I seem to recall some EX fights being comparable to x1s, and x2s encounters; and I think even Shiva Unreal was said to have a tight window similar to lower tier savage fights. So it would seem that the lower difficulty early on really isn't anything new. In this case though, there is a new Ultimate coming soon. And if the majority of those who are griping do run ultimate, then I'm not comprehending the issue other than wanting to tune-up what's locked in place.

[ASkellington]

Obviously the savage fights need to be tuned up, but I am not seeing an exacerbation of the healer issue if that is the point of the thread, especially if the fight was undertuned on purpose as was stated. IOW, this is just a different way of pointing out the healer's lack of engagement issue.

Again, I don't think Yoshi was being dismissive with saying to try ultimate. Considering that they have undertuned this current tier, and savage runners will have to wait until 6.2 for the next one, you guys kind of don't have much choice, right? Is it also possible they undertune the fights for those new to savage raids? Just tossing some haymakers.

We're level 90. The time to undertune fights is well over. It is called Savage for a reason. Before Savage we have Ex. Before Ex we have Raids. Before Raids we have trials.

RAIDS should be undertuned in my opinion. They're optional side content we can unlock. Yes, they have story, but so does everything in FFXIV. It isn't MSQ, it shouldn't be an excuse. Savage should be a test of one's skill as not just a dps, but also a tank and healer. They do not.

[Yeol]

They were not happy with Heavensward Savage clear rates, so they lowered the difficulty and in return introduced Ultimates in Stromblood. Nowadays, the first two floors of Savage are about Extreme difficulty or close to it. They want Savage to be accessible to more people, at least the first two floors.

Personally, I wish we go back to Alexander: Midas difficulty.