Another raid complaint

[Yeol]

You really think its reasonable that eight warriors cleared a savage raid?

Savage really hasn't been the Same since Alexander: The Creator (Savage). The first two floors of Savage are not as hard as people think. They are slightly above extreme difficulty. DPS checks are very forgiving.

Also, the Savage fights are designed to be cleared on release with crafted gear. So can you imagine how easier things get once people have BiS? With BiS you take less damage, deal more damage and skip mechanics because the boss dies faster.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

To point some things out about the P2s clear:

-Even with full BiS on everyone and no deaths/damage downs, they were killing it during the enrage cast.
-This is especially egregious when the 2 members I could ID their names on a certain website show they're 99% damage WARs. probably a good chance most of them are too. Meaning even with an incredibly stacked team of amazing WARs, they still barely beat the enrage. Meaning no random group would ever stand a chance at this.
-P2s has no role based mechanics, meaning an 8 WAR comp is also a lot more viable than say on p3s, where you will spend 90% of your runs wiping to the blackfire due to blackfire positions being completely random. This is also without factoring in later the RNG of the stack version of exponential gloryplume, where every WAR will have to split up since its completely random who they'll go on and must be mitigated hard to solo soak, also making the dps check even harder since multiple WARs will lose uptime.

With all due respect, who really cares about what people do when everyone has BiS? 99.99999999% of PUGs will never be able to accomplish the same thing, and these kinds of things will never happen in entry ilvl and the existence of needing dps in lower ilvl effectively mandates the existence of healers so you aren't forced to bring PLDs spamming clemency for huge damage losses. People calling for balancing changes over what the top 0.01% do for fun to test their absolute limits is such a confusing line of thinking for me.

Damage output is fine for what difficulty they want savage to be at. The actual problem is the lack of engaging healer offensive options to keep them engaged during times they don't need to heal.

[kpxmanifesto]

People calling for balancing changes over what the top 0.01% do for fun to test their absolute limits is such a confusing line of thinking for me.

Games, especially competitive ones, are balanced around the highest level of play. That's just the norm.

[SenseiMaria]

Games, especially competitive ones, are balanced around the highest level of play. That's just the norm.

>Implying FF14 is even slightly a competitive game

FF14 is the pinnacle definition of an extremely casual experience, even the devs are casual.

Besides, if they developed balance purely around what the top % of people can do, every single savage fight's dps check would be unclearable except the top 1% of players at BiS, which is asinine thinking in an MMO environment. Look at gordias to see how well balancing closer to that end of the spectrum gets you.

You balance around the audience you intend to target with the game content, it's braindead logic that even the most novice game designer can grasp in any game design. The devs have said across many liveletters & QAs that the first two floors of savage are specifically balanced around people newer to savage raiding or those more comfortable with Extreme trial levels of difficulty, as the 1st two fights are effectively extreme trial+, so its not really surprising when the top 0.01% can do an 8-war clear when the fight is balanced closer to the midcore audience than the hardcore.

[kpxmanifesto]

>Implying FF14 is even slightly a competitive game

People compete via FFlogs all the time, what do you mean?

Besides, if they developed balance purely around what the top % of people can do, every single savage fight's dps check would be unclearable except the top 1% of players at BiS, which is asinine thinking in an MMO environment. Look at gordias to see how well balancing closer to that end of the spectrum gets you.

What kind of argument is this? Do you really think balancing around the highest level of play means that anyone that’s not in the top 1% would be unable to clear the dps check? It's like you missed the point entirely.

Balancing classes around players at the highest skill level should be done because it accurately sets the ceiling for that classes' dps and utility. The reason why you don't balance a class around casual players is because it skews what’s considered acceptable in terms of dps/utility. For example, if casual players can’t play a class optimally and their dps/utility suffers because of it, and then the devs buff that class to make up for the deficit, how would that class play in the hands of a top tier player? It would be massively overpowered – like 8 tanks clearing p2s overpowered. This is what balancing around the highest skilled players means.

[Saraide]

This is the video for anyone interested:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRbvZJ-EU0U

It ended up being really close. What we are seeing here is that P2S does not have any untelegraphed role mechanics, that they massively outgear the fight, that incoming damage is low and that the dps check over the fight is also not that high and I'm not trying to downplay the skill of those 8 players, what they did is pretty sick. This is an extreme edge case. You cant design around all of those.

I appreciate the person recording the video having spell effects on because by god it is fell cleave time.

[Skiros]

This Savage tier is embarrassing at every level.

[Absimiliard]

Multiple attempts to get things to go their way and probably just as many spent practicing the fight, memorizing the precise movement patterns they needed to use, etc. just so they could barely scrape by. Self-healing is the only thing warrior has. It's no surprise (and honestly not even what I would call a problem) that people can use meme comps to complete some savage content. It's happened before, and it'll happen again. Nobody raised a stink when it was paladins doing it, funnily enough.

At any rate, they won't meet the DPS requirements in P3S and onward because of how weak WAR is on the damage front. P3S might be doable if they get super lucky, but their odds of completing P4S are pretty much zero.

[gotaname1]

I saw a solo healer p2s party in pf yesterday. After trying solo healing zodiex myself it seems like a fun challenge

[Minarisweet]

I wouldn't use this example to justify healer changes, its true that healers are necessary there by artifical means (having role especirfic mechanics instead of actually having to heal) but if the post has no hyperbole and it was truly only warriors wouldn't it also say dps classes also be considered unnecesary? Im also desperate for healers to feel better to play but this is borderline doomposting.