How would you address Button Bloat on healers?

[rewd]

snip

Any particular reason you are overthinking this, taking things out of context and going off on a tangent?

It all started from someone saying that Addersgall works like lilies, which is true. The only difference is that the former is gained every 20s, the latter every 30s. You then said that Addersgall is copy and paste from Aetherflow, but this is objectively false as SCH has the option to convert Aetherflow into damage, which SGE can't do. You can engage in mental gymnastics and say they are the same because, after all, SCH too gains three stacks every 60s, but I'm not sure what you are aiming for with all this useless nitpicking?

As for the rest (and this includes my reply to Liam too): I didn't say that lilies are a good system. I said it's fine because it has a reason to exist even without Misery. It's a boring and mediocre system (like WHM in its entirety). It's still bad and mediocre with Misery. It would still be mediocre and underwhelming with oGCD lilies, too. Misery was, and is, an afterthought. No more and no less. EW only confirmed this, although it was already obvious. To be fair, the whole system and the job is pretty much an afterthought, which is why my stance on WHM has been just "burn it to the ground and rebuild the job completely".

What are you trying to express with your AST example? Draw and Divination are independent cooldowns and Astrodyne is irrelevant. If anything, it mirrors the situation with lilies and Misery. You could delete Astrodyne and Misery from the game and not much would change. Cards would still be boring and uninspired yet functional, and lilies would still be mediocre and something that you would want to avoid using. As Liam correctly said: Misery existing changes a system from "hilariously, ridiculously, abominably bad" to "bad". For something around which the whole system allegedly revolves around, this isn't much of a win, is it?

What's up with the last bit about me allegedly loving Energy Drain? What does this have to do with anything in this discussion? And when did I say I love it? I don't love it nor do I lose my sleep over it. Unless you want to be an awful interlocutor, you shouldn't use hyperboles. You should also stick to the topic of the discussion because your message was hard to read and reply to as you just jump from a bad example to an unrelated topic more than one time.

[WaxSw]

It all started from someone saying that Addersgall works like lilies, which is true. The only difference is that the former is gained every 20s, the latter every 30s. You then said that Addersgall is copy and paste from Aetherflow, but this is objectively false as SCH has the option to convert Aetherflow into damage, which SGE can't do. You can engage in mental gymnastics and say they are the same because, after all, SCH too gains three stacks every 60s, but I'm not sure what you are aiming for with all this useless nitpicking?

Similarities between Lillies and Addersgall:
-Both resources are generated over time and not even at the same rate

They dont even use the same heals (Gcd vs oGCD), the heals are not unlocked at similar levels nor have similar effects, they dont reward the player nor work for the mp economy of the job in the same way

Similarities between Aetherflow and Addersgall:
-Both are unlocked at lv45
-Both generate 3 stacks of the resource per minute
-Both are used for oGCD heals
-Both have said oGCDs that follow the same pattern of: 1s recast time st ogcd heal (unlocked at lv45), 45s recast time stronger ogcd st heal (unlocked at 62), 15s aoe 100 potency regen heal with mitigation with 30s recast (unlocked at 50 and gets upgraded at lv78), 30s recast aoe burst heal of 400 potency (unlocked at 52)
-Both have an action unlocked at lv74 with 90s cd that allow for one potential additional stack
-Both have mp restoration effects attached to them with similar values (20% vs 21% per minute)

Only difference between both systems is that sage gains it in a passive way and do not have ED leeching it.

The only "objective" things here is that lillies have much less in common with addersgall in how they work than aetherflow and that addersgall and aetherflow are the most identical core systems two jobs have in the game.

[Liam_Harper]

The only "objective" things here is that lillies have much less in common with addersgall in how they work than aetherflow and that addersgall and aetherflow are the most identical core systems two jobs have in the game.

The only reason Lilies aren't similar to Addersgall is that they're flat out worse in almost every way.

-Adders generates outside of combat and while dead. Lilies don't.
-Adders can be generated with an oGCD. Lilies can't.
-Adders abilities are unlocked earlier. WHM must wait 24 extra levels for their Ixochole.
-Adders grants access to 4 heals. Lilies only gets 2.
-Adders are free oGCD's. Lilies are GCDs with a potency loss.
-Adders restores 7% mana, Lilies save 4% you would have spent on Glare.
-Adders charges once per 20 sec. Lilies once per 30 sec.

The only advantage Rapture has is having no cooldown, while Ixo is 30 sec. That's it. Otherwise they're so much worse it's beyond a joke.

[Deceptus]

-Adders are free oGCD's. Lilies are GCDs with a potency loss.

Toxikon is a potency loss in most forms as well. Less than a Dosis in single target and a dps loss vs Dyskrasia when there are 3 ore more targets.

[Mimilu]

Toxikon is a potency loss in most forms as well. Less than a Dosis in single target and a dps loss vs Dyskrasia when there are 3 ore more targets.

Toxikon isn’t tied to Addersgall like Misery is tied to Lilies though, which is what the post you’re quoting is talking about.