Thread: Making the case for a new starting point in 7.0

This might be something they'll look into at a later date. However, I imagine it wouldn't be until season 2 is well underway. We would be looking at 7.1 at best that they would implement this option for new players/story skippers.

Originally Posted by JudgeRAW

You say its not endgame focused but we have 2 years between expansions which means there is two years of endgame. Maybe it isn't "endgame" focused but it certainly should be a priority

Define end game. I feel like your definition isn't going to match what most players actually do in FFXIV once they finish MSQ (not to mention that we never truly finish MSQ since it's expanded with every major content patch).

"End game" doesn't need to be a priority when the huge amount of old content remains relevant to players even after they reach level cap and the game itself emphasizes the journey through the story.

This isn't WOW where almost everything becomes obsolete as soon as the next expansion is released (sometimes even the next patch) and the story is meaningless since they're just going to retcon it over and over for convenience.

Trying to define how this game should be designed by how other games do things is a bad idea.

I'm certain YoshiP has something in mind for new players come 7.0 to help speed them up to date but I suspect it's not going to be a blanket story/level skip. Some of the changes we're going to start seeing in 6.1 and later patches may give us hints about what they have planned.

I am not sure what the correct path to take is, but eventually they will have to make an alternate starting point. It is unfeasible now to expect new players to want to wade through 300+ hours of story to get to endgame. Imagine it in 4 more years when it is 500 or 600+ hours of story. It will reach a breaking point where it will be extremely hard to convince new players to try FFXIV, and will likely hurt SE's numbers.

I think it would just be worth to let people skip ARR - EW and hop straight into 7.0 at the appropriate level if they would like. Make it once per account so story and job skips aren't useless (SE would never remove these, so best compromise I can think of). Sure - it would drop unskilled brand new players into dungeons that might be far above beginner skill-level... but that's just normal DF anyways. Could even make a tutorial they have to play first so they understand the basics of the game such as tank stance/common damage markers/limit breaks/etc.

I see 3 scenarios:
1) the new player is in for the story, in which case, a skip is of course not recommended, and they should be in for the journey. Maybe we should all stop saying it's a 300h story, and advertise it more as 6*50h games. Many people have been discovering franchises like Kingdom Hearts on the late, and had to go through all of them sequentially as well.
2) the new player is in for the endgame : buy a skip. It exists for a reason. The MSQ is and has always been something the dev team has been proud of, and they will always want people to at least try to experience it.
3) the new player is interested by both the story and the end-game: end-game doesn't start at level 90. It starts at 50. If anything, I think the solution should not be to encourage story skips, but to incentivize veteran players to run synced old end-game content. That's part of what the Mentor roulette is trying (but failing) to do.

Also, bonus 4) PvP starts at level 30 and is not depending on your level/MSQ progression. Make PvP better.
And, bonus 5) We don't know if the Criterion dungeons are lv90 content or if they have a syncing system similar to Bozja/PoTD etc. Maybe it could be a good way to give a taste of end-game content to new players.

I agree that they should make end-game content more accessible to new players. But I don't think it should be done by skipping any part of the MSQ.
I just think some of the optional content should not be completely locked behind the MSQ.

WoW did this, aaaand look where they are now. That game is a steaming pile of crap.

Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

Given that we will begin an "adventure" in 6.1 as an "adventurer", there is a chance that by 7.0 only the "new" MSQ will be required to unlock the 7.0 raids. We'll find out soon. It would require the 6.1 quests to not have any requirements and to be low level quests. If that happens it could change the text depending on if you have completed the prior MSQ.

I don't understand what you mean. The "new MSQ" of an expansion is and always has been the requirement for getting to the raids or that same expansion. Old MSQ is the requirement for getting into the new MSQ, whether you do it manually or by paying for a skip to have it marked complete automatically.

6.1 is still going to be a continuation of the level 90 storyline, same as ever, probably wrapping up loose ends in preparation for 7.0 to be a good recommended "skip to here" point.

Why not just do what Guild Wars 1 did for its expansions, and allow new players to create a new character and hop into the new storyline? That way they can do the hot new stuff that the internet is talking about and their friends are doing. And then once players run out of 7.X content to do, they can go back and start the 2.0-6.0 storyline and do that.

I don't seem them doing this. The developers have been adamant that story is important in this game. Everything is tied to it in some manner. Optional content is locked behind MSQ completion because the stories in that content tie into the MSQ. They provide a way to story and level skip with limitations, but not for free. The minute they start offering that for free, that's when they give legitimacy to the idea that the story isn't important and can be disregarded and the only "important" part is the current content. And I just do not see that happening at all.

Originally Posted by Garnix

I see 3 scenarios:
1) the new player is in for the story, in which case, a skip is of course not recommended, and they should be in for the journey. Maybe we should all stop saying it's a 300h story, and advertise it more as 6*50h games. Many people have been discovering franchises like Kingdom Hearts on the late, and had to go through all of them sequentially as well.
2) the new player is in for the endgame : buy a skip. It exists for a reason. The MSQ is and has always been something the dev team has been proud of, and they will always want people to at least try to experience it.
3) the new player is interested by both the story and the end-game: end-game doesn't start at level 90. It starts at 50. If anything, I think the solution should not be to encourage story skips, but to incentivize veteran players to run synced old end-game content. That's part of what the Mentor roulette is trying (but failing) to do.

Also, bonus 4) PvP starts at level 30 and is not depending on your level/MSQ progression. Make PvP better.
And, bonus 5) We don't know if the Criterion dungeons are lv90 content or if they have a syncing system similar to Bozja/PoTD etc. Maybe it could be a good way to give a taste of end-game content to new players.

I agree that they should make end-game content more accessible to new players. But I don't think it should be done by skipping any part of the MSQ.
I just think some of the optional content should not be completely locked behind the MSQ.

Its still gonna be tricky to pull off since again, a lot of the endgame and side content is tied to the MSQ. I dont necessarily agree that its discouraging for new players to get into FFXIV for endgame alone. For example me and many of my friends got into this game BECAUSE of the amount of story crammed into the game which is always will be the main appeal of FFXIV. Why do you think they always focus on the set dressing in most of their marketing rather than "ooh look! at these new content and systems introduced!" like in other games such as WoW or Lost Ark. I think we should start advertising the fact that FFXIV is at this moment 5 jrpgs into one package.

Now granted I agree that since they're seriously planning on continuing support for the next 10 years (or until Yoshi-P dies yeesh) this is just gonna be a whole lot for new players to get into (which again I dont necessarily think its bad since Im a firm believer that narrative is still content), I have a feeling that somewhere waay later down the road, the devs are going to pull a Rhapsodies of Vanadiel like in FFXI where they streamline all of the game's expansions content into a feasible perhaps "alternate" storyline for new players to dive right into. Rhapsodies of Eorzea...heh I like the ring to that.