Physical Damage Jobs - Themes

[SeverianLyonesse]

Is just that the devs seem to be attracted to the idea of merging 2 different themes in some jobs, which of course, lead to divisive opinions (especially on the forums).

There are people who wants MCH to be more gadget focused... others do want it to be more gun focused. I'd rather have the former, to honor the actual "Machinist" name of the job, you know... handling machines. And it's somewhat like that now. The guns are only used in rotational filler abilities 1-2-3 or the Scattergun aoe. What the job misses atm has nothing to do with the theme, as its mechanics have little to no depth.

Same dilemma with BRD songs versus bows or WHM light aspected magic versus elemental magic.

I love this approach to job design. It makes for more well-rounded, faceted, and unique jobs. Not to mention gives FF XIV more identity than most MMOs/RPGs which just rotely tick down DnD job archetypes.

If people want basic, tired low-magic job fantasies, WoW is still doing just fine. Lost Ark is now available, too. Maybe look into Elden Ring or Elder Scrolls. If archetypal berserker, ranger, and spellblade cliches are your jam, there is a multitude of games out there that can give you that experience. Final Fantasy is not and really has never been a low-fantasy franchise, and that definitely remains true for FFXIV.

[dinnertime]

Bard is really weird. It's the only job I can think of where the weapon it uses clashes with the Job's theme. It's more of an Archer than it is a Bard right now, too.
To be honest they should've made Bard a caster job that has a Lyre as a weapon, and then Archer to Ranger or what it actually is right now, a Magic Archer, when they added Jobs to the game.

Machinist still makes sense because it's their staple weapon throughout the franchise. Guns are also tools, which the job has various amounts of. It's the matter of how often people prefer using that particular tool or not.
Personally I think it's better thematically now than before, because using various tools is the job theme.

[Raikai]

Bard is really weird. It's the only job I can think of where the weapon it uses clashes with the Job's theme. It's more of an Archer than it is a Bard right now, too.
To be honest they should've made Bard a caster job that has a Lyre as a weapon, and then Archer to Ranger or what it actually is right now, a Magic Archer, when they added Jobs to the game.

Machinist still makes sense because it's their staple weapon throughout the franchise. Guns are also tools, which the job has various amounts of. It's the matter of how often people prefer using that particular tool or not.
Personally I think it's better thematically now than before, because using various tools is the job theme.

Yeah, I'm not attracted to XIV's "Bard" because it's a far cry from a fantasy Bard (or even Bards in other FF titles)... The musical aspect have little thematic and visual impact on the gameplay.

As much as I wanted a more classical bard approach, I don't think they would ever do that to XIV's Bard, because it would mean implode the job. There's no precedent of such a thing, not even in "heavy" reworks like SMN, they might change the job completely on a mechanical standpoint but the theme remains.

[Easayia]

I think Bards one of the more unique jobs in the game half archer half buffer with music reminds me of Ebon song from arche age in a lot of ways. Should it be called a Bard probably not but oh well....
By far my favorite job in the game with a rotation that keeps things interesting.

I hate playing casters so I would never want caster bard.

[dinnertime]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, but FFXIV is not unique with job themes at all. Final Fantasy in general uses DnD job archetypes... Lol. Not that this is an issue. It's the standard.

In the case of FFXIV Bard, people are upset because it's not like the standard Final Fantasy Bard they loved and remembered. Understandable because Bards and Archers are two extremely different concepts. Honestly FFXIV's Bard does a terrible job merging both concepts because it's imbalanced. Like I said, it's more of an Archer than it is a Bard.

[SeverianLyonesse]

I don't know what you guys are looking at, but FFXIV is not unique with job themes at all. Final Fantasy in general uses DnD job archetypes... Lol. Not that this is an issue. It's the standard.

In the case of FFXIV Bard, people are upset because it's not like the standard Final Fantasy Bard they loved and remembered. Understandable because Bards and Archers are two extremely different concepts. Honestly FFXIV's Bard does a terrible job merging both concepts because it's imbalanced. Like I said, it's more of an Archer than it is a Bard.

You say they aren't unique, and in the same message you acknowledge that it's not the standard "Final Fantasy Bard" (based on DnD job archetypes) because it is melded with archer.

That is a unique take on both jobs. The concept of a harp-bow is a unique take on both jobs.

And also, yet again, I will reiterate that both jobs in isolation are boring AF, and that is why they were combined. Archer has very little variety, and Bard has very little agency. The two flavors work together and save each other from mediocrity. And if not Archer/Bard, they would have had to be combined with *some* other concept to have any interesting/dynamic identity in a high-fantasy action-ish RPG. This isn't Skyrim. This isn't Dark Souls. If you want a "pure" archer, go play your boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy jobs in those games. It just isn't happening in XIV, and if you're looking at the past ten years of design and thinking otherwise, your powers of self-delusion are exceptional.

[dinnertime]

You say they aren't unique, and in the same message you acknowledge that it's not the standard "Final Fantasy Bard" (based on DnD job archetypes) because it is melded with archer.

That is a unique take on both jobs. The concept of a harp-bow is a unique take on both jobs.

And also, yet again, I will reiterate that both jobs in isolation are boring AF, and that is why they were combined. Archer has very little variety, and Bard has very little agency. The two flavors work together and save each other from mediocrity. And if not Archer/Bard, they would have had to be combined with *some* other concept to have any interesting/dynamic identity in a high-fantasy action-ish RPG. This isn't Skyrim. This isn't Dark Souls. If you want a "pure" archer, go play your boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy jobs in those games. It just isn't happening in XIV, and if you're looking at the past ten years of design and thinking otherwise, your powers of self-delusion are exceptional.

I literally implied on the same post, and said on a previous post that Bard is one of the unique ones they have. Does it mean it's good though?

And honestly I beg to differ about how they work together when both ideas do not even balance each other. It's why there's a rift between Bard players who want a real Bard, and Bard players who were disappointed that it didn't evolve more into Archery like the class they started with.

It's really funny you ignored my entire point anyway about Final Fantasy having these "boring, cream-of-wheat low-fantasy" Jobs. Paladin, Warrior, Monk, Black Mage, White Mage and many more fall under the typical cookie-cutter RPG class stereotypes. They're not unique and I wouldn't pretend they're not. Again, it's not a bad thing but if someone is being self-delusional, it's honestly you.

[Jirah]

MCH could feel more machinist-like if instead of summoning Queen and forgetting, you could hop into the mech and pilot it, kinda like how Reaper.

You mean word for word exactly like reaper. Idk if it’s the same person saying this “we should stop being a machinist and start being a mech pilot” idea floating around which is as bad as the whole “let MCH have a res for no logical reason” but I’ve seen the request one too many times to be annoyed by it now.

Yes the turrets are currently the worst incantation we have ever had in the games history, no having some mech out of blue won’t solve this.