Devs, please make job crystals in lv 31+ content mandatory.

[Saraide]

I would be pretty upset with the person regardless.

Disregarding if I believe you or not, can you see how a lot of people might see that in a different light?

[Azuri]

Disregarding if I believe you or not, can you see how a lot of people might see that in a different light?

I don't really care what light will other people see it in. *shrug*

[Avidria]

Does it matter if there is a genuinely bad player or an intentionally sandbagging player in the party? The outcome is the same. One player performs worse. If one is acceptable and perfectly fine, then so is the other.

Neither are acceptable or perfectly fine.

[Azuri]

Neither are acceptable or perfectly fine.

But by Yoshida's own words - it is! Good players are expected to carry bad players. Intentionally.

[Avidria]

But by Yoshida's own words - it is! Good players are expected to carry bad players. Intentionally.

I'm genuinely curious what point you're trying to make here, or what you're trying to prove. But I also genuinely don't care all that much. There's actual game rules, then there's general social rules which are admittedly quite transient but generally follow a consistent sort of flavor. Personally I think it's pretty rude to consciously and willingly choose to underperform and expect others to pick up the slack, and if you want to play in an indisputably suboptimal way then you should be queueing up with friends and not randoms. And I mean you generally here. But I also don't generally queue alone myself, and I already go into pugs expecting mediocrity, so it's no skin off my nose at the end of the day.

[Jojoya]

I sort of agree, though I think level 31 is too low for the mandatory point. Level 50 would make more sense as that's when we stop learning class abilities (there are still quite a few learned between 30 and 50) and move strictly to job abilities. Most of the job skills between 30 and 50 acquired by the jobs that start as a class aren't vital to clearing level 30-49 content.

As for making job stones automatic or removing them as no longer necessary, there is RP and lore involved with job stones. I don't think either is a good solution. Making classes ineligible to queue for level 50+ Duty Finder content using normal matchmaking should be sufficient. Classes could effectively work like Blue Mage - you can use Undersized party to queue with friends as the class or you can switch to a job to use the normal matchmaking.

[rainichan]

they might be doing these "challenges"

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/445191

Yep, I mentioned that in my opening post! I don't mind if people want to do that - play how you want and all, but I feel that it should be with people who are expecting to load into a duty with a tank/healer/dps missing a huge chunk of their kit. Yoshida is also pretty keen on saving people from embarrassment in just about everything that I don't see why it wouldn't be a mandatory thing to save people who forget it accidentally from that.

And for everyone else: wow, this blew up in the time I posted and now!

As others have said, one person not experiencing it does not mean it doesn't happen: I've never won the jumbo cactpot, but others have, there's even records of it. People are here with their own "oh, yes, I had it happen recently in newer dungeons" which I also appreciate. With trusts happening in the older dungeons it may not be as bad, but we have yet to see how it affects things. Trusts in older content will only be put into MSQ-related dungeons (as mentioned in the LL), and there's quite a few optional dungeons in ARR that will have players running with others.

That said, I also know the class system is basically baked into the infrastructure, been here since 1.0. It's not something they can easily gut unfortunately, so they wouldn't be able to just take it out and replace everything with jobs. They've made changes for anything not in the base game to be job-only, which is their way of trying to fix it.

The game has the system already in place . PVP you cannot queue without one equipped. Its here already it needs a minor bit of work to alter the Dungeons and AllyRaids and Trails to do a check like PVP does to see if the JStones equipped.

Shows how much I do pvp lol... my jobs all have their crystals equipped so I never notice, but there is that + someone mentioned the 89 AF gear is JUST the job. I don't think it would take much for them to push that on to non-pvp content.

Well, that "sorry, I'm new" became such a pervasive get out of jail free pass (not like you can actually do anything about it) for everything, that now it's nothing but a question of if you're gullible enough to believe aliens stole their job stone or not.

Some truly are, and I never mind helping sprouts who are clearly new to everything. The game is, in some aspects, very hand-holdy and intuitive for a lot, but then incredibly not intuitive or tell you what should happen, and they don't really... tell you about the crystals. While it's another topic for another thread, updating the Hall of Novice or having something for when you boost a character to go over the 80 levels of things you've missed would help, but making sure you've got something saying "hey, get this to continue your adventures in catching baddies on fire as a Black Mage instead of a Thaumaturge" would help a ton.

While I don't think it needs to be as strict as level 31+ content, I do think there's a level at which it should be required for sure. Maybe make it level 35 or something so that there's a little bit of breathing room.

Brayflox is usually the worst dungeon after Haukke, followed pretty close by Stone Vigil. Not having your abilities as a tank or a healer to mitigate in those dungeons where things amp up is why I figure starting from Brayflox would be best. Haukke you can ding 30 in and I don't want people griefing "why don't you have this" when they physically cannot (and you know there would be those kinds of people in there).

Well, let's break up the circlejerk a little, shall we? You'd only force that bard job stone in my hands over my cold dead body. Archer is the bow job I always loved and I'm not trading it for some "we got real sad so we started playing music on our bowstrings" weirdness.

Now, to adress the practical concerns. Being bad at the game and having your team carry you isn't a bannable offense. ...

You're welcome to play however you wish, but others don't have to play with you if they choose and are welcome to dismiss you from play. I don't think there should be banning of people, but that's why the difference of playstyle or they feel you're actively griefing are legit dismissible reasons when vote kicking someone. A lot of people don't want to carry someone who they feel are not carrying their weight, and if you can find like-minded people to run with you for that, more power to you.

ok. what do we do about arcanist?

Definitely not agreeing with who you replied to, but I know they've talked about wanting to split SMN and SCH, but there's a lot of technical stuff that keeps them from doing so. At the very least, we don't have to keep using The Keeper's Hymn to reset stat bonuses if we wanna play one or the other! If they can figure out how to undo the job being attached to ACN eventually - it IS a 2.0 job, but I'm not sure how much is built on the old 1.0 system - that would be tubular.

It would be nice if they added a more of a quality of life instructions toward the importance of obtaining your Job crystal.

If they can't make them mandatory, I would take the system mentioning it in more detail since it... really doesn't once you hit 30. It might get irritating for someone clicking through on their tenth alt, but hey, at least you know to grab your stone and that you get cool abilities with it.

I sort of agree, though I think level 31 is too low for the mandatory point. Level 50 would make more sense as that's when we stop learning class abilities (there are still quite a few learned between 30 and 50) and move strictly to job abilities. Most of the job skills between 30 and 50 acquired by the jobs that start as a class aren't vital to clearing level 30-49 content.

As for making job stones automatic or removing them as no longer necessary, there is RP and lore involved with job stones. I don't think either is a good solution. Making classes ineligible to queue for level 50+ Duty Finder content using normal matchmaking should be sufficient. Classes could effectively work like Blue Mage - you can use Undersized party to queue with friends as the class or you can switch to a job to use the normal matchmaking.

On jobs such as a WHM by staying a CNJ, you would be missing Regen at 35, Holy at 45, and until you got your job stone at 50, Benediction. A GLD would be missing Sheltron at 35, their second hit in their aoe combo that also restores MP at 40, and without a job stone at 50, Hallowed Ground, and so on and so forth. Some classes it may not matter in dps, depending, but for a healer and a tank it absolutely does. In those classes especially, nerfing yourself unintentionally up until 50 isn't really ideal. Having the abilities as you receive them at the level you're intended to receive them with a job stone will also help people remember what they do, that they received it, and to use it.

[Denji]

i wish it was enforced. i had a mentor and two sprouts in aurum vale and when i asked the marauder why they weren't a warrior yet the mentor defended them and said "we're all friends here, let them play how they want to play".

they didn't have frickin' mythril tempest. just would use overpower once in a blue moon and then single-targeted each mob for the the entire dungeon. i wanted to cry.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I think it’s better to lock entire lv50 and higher to the jobs just like how they lock relic weapons. I.e. Nirvana Zeta only equippable by WHM, CNJs aren’t allowed. So then we’ll have lv50+ melee set only allowing DRG, RPR, MNK, NIN, and SAM to equip: PUG, ROG and LNC not allowed.

[Johners]

i wish it was enforced. i had a mentor and two sprouts in aurum vale and when i asked the marauder why they weren't a warrior yet the mentor defended them and said "we're all friends here, let them play how they want to play".

they didn't have frickin' mythril tempest. just would use overpower once in a blue moon and then single-targeted each mob for the the entire dungeon. i wanted to cry.

It's one of those things that seldom happens but when it does, it's laughable that you can still play like that in 2022. Also mentors are a special bunch and that's another system I don't think is fit for purpose in 2022 either, should probably just be removed.