Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Maltothoris]

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

[IdowhatIwant]

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

I would not expect any significant changes to healers this expansion to be honest. Drk maybe but even that is a big maybe.

[Silver-Strider]

JUst bumping this up to make sure that it's on the front page.

Well we do have the live letter that is coming up on April 1st so I do wonder what they're going to say on the healer stuff about whm. I wouldn't get any hopes up though. At best, probably an extra charge on thin air per use and a lower of mp costs on cure 2 and cure 3.

Your optimism is sickening. An extra charge of Thin Air won't happen until next expansion to make it seem like they're actually doing work on healers.

[Acece]

Engaging healer gameplay in p2s btw

[Ixon]

I would not expect any significant changes to healers this expansion to be honest. Drk maybe but even that is a big maybe.

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

[technole]

Engaging healer gameplay in p2s btw

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

[Acece]

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

Oh yeah mb

here's my first clear as a i580 sch lol (think this was like 3rd week?)

[SeverianLyonesse]

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

It's not ilevel gain that's the problem or at the core of this entire question/thread. It shouldn't matter how much healing a healer is or isn't required to do for normal/savage content. What matters is that, regardless of how much healing we do, there is and will always be downtime and we only have one button to spam during that downtime.

I think it is misplaced to put the burden of healing engagement on encounter design. The bulk of encounter difficulty is based around movement and damage *dodging*--players' skill is tested and awarded by their ability to avoid damage altogether. And it's already fairly challenging as it is...it just happens that the better a party is at the game's primary mechanics, the less required healers are. So the only two options would be:

1) Make attack dodging *even more* difficult, which would not be very fair to any party member and destroy a lot of the game's fun factor if players now suddenly *needed* to precisely optimize positioning and movement to clear most content.

2) Add more arbitrary unavoidable damage, which already happens to an extent and is a really cheap method of heal-checking and undermines player skill.

Outside of just retooling trial attack potencies, there just isn't a very good way to approach making healing itself more necessary. And even that approach, like the others, would only marginally improve healer necessity because whatever playerbase didn't quit would just adjust to more punishing mechs. Which is why most of us are advocating for increased DPS/utility instead, because at minimum healers deserve more to do in a game that by design doesn't and will not require them to be healing most of the time.

[HyoMinPark]

P2S is okay, it's not the instance itself, just savage in-general gets too comfy with ilevel gain. More dangerous on week one with the final double arrows stack, and having to need mitigation for the heavy AoEs. Now they don't need it.

It's the crux YoshiP's argument they make about "go play ultimate"

As savage is tuned to the average min ilevel i580 and anything more is breathing room. So their raid testers have to clear the content at i580. Whether they really go back in with i600 is anyone's guess.

Versus say the next ultimate being tuned to only one ilevel, i600. I get their argument is more of "we made content that is only tuned for best-in-slot so try that". That's really not enough, like all content in the game needs to be able to use the healer buttons better. It doesn't have to be challenging either.

While you aren’t wrong about item level differences between week 1 prog and now (week 12 or 13; can’t remember), healers still were primarily pressing their nuke even during week 1. At most I had a handful of Eukrasian Prognosis casts for super safety gamer prog, but by and far the majority of my GCDs were still my single-target nuke. And it only gets worse with gear.

Mitigation being primarily oGCD doesn’t really break it up much. Weave in a Kerachole or Holos for my mitigation, tank throws up theirs, phys ranged uses theirs, etc.. It still doesn’t break up the monotony of a healer’s “rotation”. And while I imagine there will be more super safety gamer healing in DSR during prog, by the time I clear, my single-target nuke casts will still outweigh all of my healing casts combined by a mile.

[MintnHoney]

They stated that they weren't going to do major reworks till after the next Ultimate most likely because they don't want to break jobs or break the Ultimate that was already delayed so much. So this thread will be poppin off when 6.1 is just potencies and minor adjustments.

If it was stated as such, those "major reworks" they're talking about are reserved for the DPS role. For Healers, this is just another roadblock they've added to further prolong their detour from having to tread through healer feedback and concerns, just like the promised healer "rework" was really just an excuse to push back the need to re-assess the role by using the sheen of a new job in order to sidestep the responsibility after sidelining it for 2 expansions. So while, yes, the thread will certainly be filled with exciting and renewed takes on the dev team's willful ignorance and the white-knighting that will happen because players are excited at getting another nugget of story to play through, it'll be just another Friday to the healer community.