Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Thoosa]

Ty for info

It would be nice to get an extra aoe dps button or single target.

[Mimilu]

If you must ask, quests, FATE with friendly NPCs, new Trust/Squadron in future patches..etc. There're already systems in the game that can support such gameplay like replacing our hotbar with an entire different toolkit during certain events. Same can be applied to healers if SE somehow determined to completely remove all offensive tools from healers.

And you expect a new player to know about all these systems when choosing to make a CNJ?

And you never did ask my questions about that MMO you mentioned:

And what did that game do for healers when they had downtime but where stuck with their healing kit?
Was the encounter design in that game more scripted like XIV's or was it just random damage bursts?

You really should just name the game so we can analyze it and contrast it with XIV.

[Banriikku]

Please, for the love of Zenos....

Healers should heal= the game dont supports this at ALL =this will not work
Healers should not DPS=Look at the jobs and the healers are already "gimped DPS"= this will not work
Healers should get Utility=SE removed most the utility and simplified to "dps increase" and "less incoming damage"

All encounter promote DPS above all and DPS itself is rewarded. Please stop behaving as if the game was diffrent. All jobs are DPS in some way and all encounter are build with this in mind.
So before you start with the "if you wanna dps, play dps" - know the game because this is beyond and looks like it is on purpose just for the sake of "no you..".

[Clarissa_Jiffrey]

Hi, I share in the opinion that healers are not in a good spot right now - they do work, but thats it. They are in need of an overhaul, perhaps even a complete rethinking of the development philosophy behind them.

Don't get me wrong, SQEX did an excellent job on the high level by putting together, and maintaining working systems, making one of the best RPGMMO-experience there are.

That being said, as we already have established in this threat, healers do what they are supposed to do role wise - they are balanced to the degree that any healer in and combination can get the job done. SQEX applied solid and sound mathematics, templates, and formulas and made sure the healer work universally --- and that is where ends "they just work".

What FFXIV needs is not only a healer overhaul, but a COMPLETE RETHINKING of the encounter philosophy in relation to the role of the healer and the healers as jobs themselves. Full-True-Support-Healers over Healing-DPSs? I take it! Healers that are switching between Damage-Rotation Stance/Set + Skills and Heal-Repertoire of Skills Stance/Sets depending on the situation? Sure why not! … But as many suggested these things here, these will not work! These will not work with the current rules of gameplay; not work with the current design philosophy. It is short sighted to think the problem can be solved that easily. Changes to the Healer role CANNOT exists or happen in the vacuum of the healer role itself, the role needs to be harmonized in the light of a major change with the other jobs.

Currently DPS jobs across the board are fun to play and work, for most players there is something in there. Tanks, well they felt prior to Shadwobringers better and not as homogenous – but they are fun to play… Healers … well they match the fantasy of a healer, they have the skill of a healer and work, but fun throughout the whole range of contents there is… not really – and that makes me sad as a WHM main.

So yeah, to close the circle to the start of this topic, EVEN IF it was meant as a joke, telling us that if we want a fun challenge a healers we should go ultimate, is inappropriate for a developer to do so, especially as the heals issues are not only existing since Endwalker. It is telling that most of SQEX staff are maiming DPS and they have to turn to “Stone, Paper, Scissors” to decide who heals… Yoshida-San’s “joke” about healers-fun in ultimate, shows how much he is misunderstanding the issue at hand, how blind he must be either by his fault or by a lack of information provided to him by his team. Players - especially main healers - that showed SQEX so much praise, respect, and especially loyalty throughout the years should not be mistreated that way.

I sincerely believe that if SQEX picks up on this issue, this big topic here, that they have the potential to give Healer Roll Jobs the love they deserve…

That’s it from my side. Please SQEX, please Yoshida-San, recognize and harken to our please, for Eorzea would not what it be without the gentle soothing light, the succor giving magic, the blessings of the stars, or the mending warmth of battle-injections.

My co-healer in our savage raid static once addressed the raid with the following statement: "the most fun as a healer I have is, when you guys botch the mechanics - when you play good, that's when it stops being fun for me and it gets repetitive and boring", and well they're right. The better you get as a healer and the more you try to reach a high degree of skill and level of play, the less of the great potential your job has to offer you will use as a healer. If you are playing a healer with the mind set to efficiently contribute to the team effort as best as you can, you will diminish the joy of playing the job, as the most efficient and helpful way to play with your team is to be repetitive and on point with a minimum skill set. That IS the SAD REALITY.

If you are now starting to argue healers should heal, or how fun it would be to have more utility skills or the like, then I think you are not a main heal. Because SQEX stated clearly that healers are not supposed to do much utility, they should heal – but the reality of the systems they’ve designed is a different one – their system asks for healer DPS, if you look at the required group DPS clear numbers and crunch some good old fashioned math, then you realize that anything above extreme content was designed with 15% to 20% of the damage done by healers in mind. And that is a truth that predates Endwalker. 40% of a raids DPS will NOT be done by the DPS jobs. It is done by Tanks and Healers. So they are not Tanks and Healers but DPS who can also Tank or DPS who can also Heal – As harsh as that may sound, but THAT is the reality of FFXIV, the reality of SQEX Systemic Job Philosophie.

[Floortank]

Really? Exactly how would it "upset balance'?
Let's take the case that a extra DPS skill is added to all healing jobs. Do you really think that all of a sudden their DPS output goes up by, let's say- 50%? because I don't see that happening. Are we now getting back to a new way of saying "if you want to be a DPS, play a DPS "?

I can complete the idea for them. Boss HP runs concurrent to an expected rate of party damage with an average item level. The lower the average, the harder the fight. This calculation is very precise. If you do something to change that number, it changes the fight.

Giving healers one or two additional damage oGCDs would make the fight easier. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it would have an effect. Even a 1% difference in damage over the course of an eight minute fight would have an influence on the outcome.

But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.

[IDontPetLalas]

I can complete the idea for them. Boss HP runs concurrent to an expected rate of party damage with an average item level. The lower the average, the harder the fight. This calculation is very precise. If you do something to change that number, it changes the fight.

Giving healers one or two additional damage oGCDs would make the fight easier. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it would have an effect. Even a 1% difference in damage over the course of an eight minute fight would have an influence on the outcome.

But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.

No, it would not likely do so, i didn't want to bring up even more however-

I don't what idea has to be completed, it was clarified a few posts above, if it happened that the game designers happened to add some DPS skills to healers- the game design already accounts for damage from both tanks and healers- and job skills regularly get adjusted in in some patches- so this not something that is some extraordinary new concept.

I don't even get your last statement at all. "But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.". What exactly are you saying?

[Sebazy]

There're already systems in the game that can support such gameplay like replacing our hotbar with an entire different toolkit during certain events.

Ideally they could hire some competent class designers that actually have an interest in the healing role to fill our hotbars with a entirely different toolkit that doesn't revolve around pressing the same button 100-150 times in a single trial or turn.

[ForteNightshade]

I'm pretty sure that's the thinking behind the healer DPS rotation. Why make additional buttons when the current ones are already effective for DPS purpose?

And remember, that's the reason behind my idea in the first place. SE doesn't seem to want to give DPS rotation. People want rotation. This is one idea for that. Is it the only or best solution? Probably not, but you all are just attacking it based on "current design philosophy" when that seems to be tangential to the point.

Except your idea does not provide any meaningful gameplay or improvements despite your insistence to the contrary. Instead of spamming Glare, you're forcing healers to spam Medica alongside it all for an arbitrary MP regeneration tacked on only to make the system work. It's no more a "rotation" than what we have now because most of those Medicas will be worthless. Meanwhile, pressing damage buttons and tracking things like DoTs actually provide gameplay. Black Mage's system is fun because everything flows into its core gameplay: dealing damage. Your idea is at odds with this; both trying to encourage damage and excessive healing at the same time. Hence why it doesn't hold to scrutiny.

In fact, let's dive a little deeper and showcase exactly why this system falls apart. For the sake of argument, we'll assume a six minute encounter with Glare costing 2,000 MP. Five casts allotted before needing to switch stances.

Scenario A: MP is restored in the same manner as Umbral Ice, wherein the moment a healing GCD is cast, you'll auto tick back to full MP. We'll assume this regeneration takes two server ticks (six seconds). What's the problem? There is literally zero incentive to heal unless outgoing damage has occurred due to MP regenerating independently of your abilities. Just like on Black Mage, you can technically stand around doing absolutely nothing and still get back into your Astral Fire phase. Unlike Black Mage, however, where doing so results in a substantial DPS loss. There exists no such penalty for a healer as per your idea, this phase exists only for healing and MP regeneration. If neither are necessary, you can AFK.

Scenario B: MP is restored through actively casting GCD heals. We'll assume each GCD heal restores 5,000 MP with zero cost in this "healing" phase. Your "rotation" would be Glare x5 --> Medica x3 (one to enter your "Ice" phase; two to restore MP) --> Glare x5 and so on. The problem here ought to be fairly obvious. All you've accomplished is changing three Glare casts into three GCD heals, which may have no value beyond their MP regeneration component. Calling this a rotation would be laughable at best. It's the near equivalent to to say, Dragoon back in Stormblood, doing their combo except Disembowel and Vorpal Thrust don't deal damage, they restore TP. Does the Dragoon need TP? Nope. But they restore it anyway! No flashy animation will make those abilities feel impactful or worth pressing. Just like five Glare casts into three Medica casts that do not provide any healing, will feel impactful for healers.

[MiaShino]

No no no no no more gcd heal reliance please. GCD healing within FF14 feels fricken terrible!

.3 tick rate? GCD rollover of base 2.5 seconds? No thank you.

There is nothing quite like the syncing down to lower levels as healer right meow. Mmm yummy I love going hhhhnnnnnnnnnng Adlo for fifteen years while also losing uptime. Amazing! Will it arrive in time? Will I Adlo myself because server ticks suck the big phat one? Who knooows!

[Aword3213]

And you expect a new player to know about all these systems when choosing to make a CNJ?

Doing quests and FATE shouldn't be too hard, I guess. Tutorial exists

You really should just name the game so we can analyze it and contrast it with XIV.

I didn't want to mention the name because it will take a lot of time to explain the difference and I'm not interested in doing this.

Just know the healing tools we have in this game is way too powerful.