Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Floortank]

Really? Exactly how would it "upset balance'?
Let's take the case that a extra DPS skill is added to all healing jobs. Do you really think that all of a sudden their DPS output goes up by, let's say- 50%? because I don't see that happening. Are we now getting back to a new way of saying "if you want to be a DPS, play a DPS "?

I can complete the idea for them. Boss HP runs concurrent to an expected rate of party damage with an average item level. The lower the average, the harder the fight. This calculation is very precise. If you do something to change that number, it changes the fight.

Giving healers one or two additional damage oGCDs would make the fight easier. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it would have an effect. Even a 1% difference in damage over the course of an eight minute fight would have an influence on the outcome.

But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.

[IDontPetLalas]

I can complete the idea for them. Boss HP runs concurrent to an expected rate of party damage with an average item level. The lower the average, the harder the fight. This calculation is very precise. If you do something to change that number, it changes the fight.

Giving healers one or two additional damage oGCDs would make the fight easier. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it would have an effect. Even a 1% difference in damage over the course of an eight minute fight would have an influence on the outcome.

But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.

No, it would not likely do so, i didn't want to bring up even more however-

I don't what idea has to be completed, it was clarified a few posts above, if it happened that the game designers happened to add some DPS skills to healers- the game design already accounts for damage from both tanks and healers- and job skills regularly get adjusted in in some patches- so this not something that is some extraordinary new concept.

I don't even get your last statement at all. "But would healers be satisfied with two new oGCDs? No, not at all. Not even a little bit.". What exactly are you saying?

[Thoosa]

Really? Exactly how would it "upset balance'?
Let's take the case that a extra DPS skill is added to all healing jobs. Do you really think that all of a sudden their DPS output goes up by, let's say- 50%? because I don't see that happening. Are we now getting back to a new way of saying "if you want to be a DPS, play a DPS "?

I’ve no idea, but there has to be some technical reason because the “don’t want to put pressure on healers” argument is resolved by ogcd heals.

In Stormblood (I think?) WHM had aero 3 and SCH had shadowflare and something else and they took them away, can’t remember the reasons why.

[HyoMinPark]

I’ve no idea, but there has to be some technical reason because the “don’t want to put pressure on healers” argument is resolved by ogcd heals.

In Stormblood (I think?) WHM had aero 3 and SCH had shadowflare and something else and they took them away, can’t remember the reasons why.

Streamlining and oversimplification. Much the reason aspects of other jobs have been removed throughout the years. Not because having a second DoT or Shadowflare upset the balance and broke the healers relative to the content they were in.

For DoTs specifically, they stated that a lot of DoT removal was due to how many DoTs can be applied at once to a target, and too many DoTs resulted in jobs like BRD and SMN losing damage because the DoTs didn’t register. Since both jobs had abilities that relied on DoT application (Sidewinder for BRD, and Fester for SMN), this was extremely detrimental to them. However, neither of those aspects exist anymore—BRD DoTs don’t interact with any aspect of the job as of EW; Sidewinder is just a flat potency. And SMN doesn’t even have DoTs at this point, so it is very much possible to re-add a DoT or two back to the healers without running into this limitation. And it wouldn’t upset the balance.

[Thoosa]

Ty for info

It would be nice to get an extra aoe dps button or single target.

[Banriikku]

Please, for the love of Zenos....

Healers should heal= the game dont supports this at ALL =this will not work
Healers should not DPS=Look at the jobs and the healers are already "gimped DPS"= this will not work
Healers should get Utility=SE removed most the utility and simplified to "dps increase" and "less incoming damage"

All encounter promote DPS above all and DPS itself is rewarded. Please stop behaving as if the game was diffrent. All jobs are DPS in some way and all encounter are build with this in mind.
So before you start with the "if you wanna dps, play dps" - know the game because this is beyond and looks like it is on purpose just for the sake of "no you..".

[Clarissa_Jiffrey]

Hi, I share in the opinion that healers are not in a good spot right now - they do work, but thats it. They are in need of an overhaul, perhaps even a complete rethinking of the development philosophy behind them.

Don't get me wrong, SQEX did an excellent job on the high level by putting together, and maintaining working systems, making one of the best RPGMMO-experience there are.

That being said, as we already have established in this threat, healers do what they are supposed to do role wise - they are balanced to the degree that any healer in and combination can get the job done. SQEX applied solid and sound mathematics, templates, and formulas and made sure the healer work universally --- and that is where ends "they just work".

What FFXIV needs is not only a healer overhaul, but a COMPLETE RETHINKING of the encounter philosophy in relation to the role of the healer and the healers as jobs themselves. Full-True-Support-Healers over Healing-DPSs? I take it! Healers that are switching between Damage-Rotation Stance/Set + Skills and Heal-Repertoire of Skills Stance/Sets depending on the situation? Sure why not! … But as many suggested these things here, these will not work! These will not work with the current rules of gameplay; not work with the current design philosophy. It is short sighted to think the problem can be solved that easily. Changes to the Healer role CANNOT exists or happen in the vacuum of the healer role itself, the role needs to be harmonized in the light of a major change with the other jobs.

Currently DPS jobs across the board are fun to play and work, for most players there is something in there. Tanks, well they felt prior to Shadwobringers better and not as homogenous – but they are fun to play… Healers … well they match the fantasy of a healer, they have the skill of a healer and work, but fun throughout the whole range of contents there is… not really – and that makes me sad as a WHM main.

So yeah, to close the circle to the start of this topic, EVEN IF it was meant as a joke, telling us that if we want a fun challenge a healers we should go ultimate, is inappropriate for a developer to do so, especially as the heals issues are not only existing since Endwalker. It is telling that most of SQEX staff are maiming DPS and they have to turn to “Stone, Paper, Scissors” to decide who heals… Yoshida-San’s “joke” about healers-fun in ultimate, shows how much he is misunderstanding the issue at hand, how blind he must be either by his fault or by a lack of information provided to him by his team. Players - especially main healers - that showed SQEX so much praise, respect, and especially loyalty throughout the years should not be mistreated that way.

I sincerely believe that if SQEX picks up on this issue, this big topic here, that they have the potential to give Healer Roll Jobs the love they deserve…

That’s it from my side. Please SQEX, please Yoshida-San, recognize and harken to our please, for Eorzea would not what it be without the gentle soothing light, the succor giving magic, the blessings of the stars, or the mending warmth of battle-injections.

My co-healer in our savage raid static once addressed the raid with the following statement: "the most fun as a healer I have is, when you guys botch the mechanics - when you play good, that's when it stops being fun for me and it gets repetitive and boring", and well they're right. The better you get as a healer and the more you try to reach a high degree of skill and level of play, the less of the great potential your job has to offer you will use as a healer. If you are playing a healer with the mind set to efficiently contribute to the team effort as best as you can, you will diminish the joy of playing the job, as the most efficient and helpful way to play with your team is to be repetitive and on point with a minimum skill set. That IS the SAD REALITY.

If you are now starting to argue healers should heal, or how fun it would be to have more utility skills or the like, then I think you are not a main heal. Because SQEX stated clearly that healers are not supposed to do much utility, they should heal – but the reality of the systems they’ve designed is a different one – their system asks for healer DPS, if you look at the required group DPS clear numbers and crunch some good old fashioned math, then you realize that anything above extreme content was designed with 15% to 20% of the damage done by healers in mind. And that is a truth that predates Endwalker. 40% of a raids DPS will NOT be done by the DPS jobs. It is done by Tanks and Healers. So they are not Tanks and Healers but DPS who can also Tank or DPS who can also Heal – As harsh as that may sound, but THAT is the reality of FFXIV, the reality of SQEX Systemic Job Philosophie.

[MiaShino]

No no no no no more gcd heal reliance please. GCD healing within FF14 feels fricken terrible!

.3 tick rate? GCD rollover of base 2.5 seconds? No thank you.

There is nothing quite like the syncing down to lower levels as healer right meow. Mmm yummy I love going hhhhnnnnnnnnnng Adlo for fifteen years while also losing uptime. Amazing! Will it arrive in time? Will I Adlo myself because server ticks suck the big phat one? Who knooows!

[technole]

No no no no no more gcd heal reliance please. GCD healing within FF14 feels fricken terrible!

.3 tick rate? GCD rollover of base 2.5 seconds? No thank you.

There is nothing quite like the syncing down to lower levels as healer right meow. Mmm yummy I love going hhhhnnnnnnnnnng Adlo for fifteen years while also losing uptime. Amazing! Will it arrive in time? Will I Adlo myself because server ticks suck the big phat one? Who knooows!

That was the way we did things in ARR. There was only Bene as the White Mage oGCD heal. You didn't have the MP to be a stone freak either. I do remember in Turn 13 getting to use Holy during adds, couple of stones during Hallowed Ground, Holmgang. There just wasn't the MP, nor oGCDs to really get away with it to the extent of today.

Even at the beginning of the fight, you have about 2 GCDs to get the DPS healthy in Turn 13 after Megaflare before the Earthshakers, so you plan to land the Medica II immediately when the stack hit. Otherwise your single target Cure IIs wasn't going to be enough to keep your DPS target alive. The other healer would get the other side, they just Adlo and Lustrate. Just a snapshot on how GCD healing wasn't boring, it was how things were and you had a finite plan on what you needed to do compared to the array of options today.

[Faafetai]

I may be completely off base here, but aren't Ultimates literally the same thing where everything is still on a timer. Raid wide goes out people need to be healed, tank busters go out, but there is more of that damage going out and you need more focus on party mitigations similar to savage before everyone is completely geared out? I have not done them yet but I highly doubt things will be random it is just not in this games nature to be random with certain things unless you are playing with accident prone players which is indeed fun and challenging. This is not learning how to parry in dark souls or trying to master backstabbing and parrying to take down Abyss Watchers. Even still you will not suddenly have a rotation on whm like they promised in a live letter before EW for aoe holy lilly being a combo. I will eventually attempt Ultimates but I highly doubt once you memorize the fight it will no longer be challenging way less after people make barely any mistakes in all content.

That isn't to say it wont be challenging but I feel as though there is either a translation issue with what people actually want or what they even understand about what people are asking for. I really just think Yoshi P needs to go on a stream and level whm and be stuck going through the ARR grind the whole experience not just edit his character to 90 and test at end game. No one plays healer on the dev team correct? I think even if they do not want to they should try it on out and tell us if they are having fun.