Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Rilifane]

IMO "if you want a challenge, you have to play the hardest content in the game" is a bit of a cop out. Sure, if you want to spend months wiping to the same mechanics over and over (unless you're lucky and have a good group and can clear it faster) that is definitely a challenge, but not everyone wants to spend hours and hours on one bit of content. I can imagine there's a much wider proportion of the community who would like some challenging content that is easily puggable, that is repeatable, that doesn't need a massive time commitment and offers unique rewards that gives some incentive to do it. Just something that isn't a choice between face roll, or a massive wall.

Besides, it's not about challenging content.
It's about engaging gameplay at all difficulty levels.

Wiping 100h in an Ultimate because the same people keeping messing up a dance and kill everyone, resetting a 15min fight, doesn't make GlareGlareGlare more exciting. It doesn't turn 1111111 into 1335241121334 because you either dodge or die. Only very few things are recoverable through sheer heal spam in Ultimate like healers healbotting someone that got a feather rain dot in UwU or healing autos on a dps if the tank died.
And even if it were different: it's obviously not content that's designed to be done on a day by day basis, where you just hop in anytime you feel like it. So that would still leave the majority of combat-based ingame activities with 11111 spam.

[Liam_Harper]

One of the biggest problems Yoshida has is that he worries too much about neglecting casuals, to the point that he indirectly neglects everyone else instead.

What I mean by this is that he's openly admitted he's a hardcore gamer. He knows that many players are not hardcore gamers and just play for story, glam, housing, RP, ect. He doesn't want to create a game that's biased towards his own preferences. Therefore he's careful to consider the casual player and make sure the game is inclusive to them. So far great, I fully approve.

The problem comes in when the fear of bias or not accommodating the very casual player is so strong, that they push everyone else aside instead. Healers being a great example, are not designed to be "easy to learn, hard to master" and engaging for all players, they're designed only for the most casual players. There is no attempt to accommodate all types of players, even though it's not just about casual vs hardcore, but also a wide range of players in-between who simply want a game to challenge them a bit and keep them occupied.

Ultimate and Savage have sort of become the corner to put us in and keep us quiet. This is why we're told to get back in our corner and shush when we want the actual game itself to be enjoyable. It's not meant for us.

[Deceptus]

Healers being a great example, are not designed to be "easy to learn, hard to master"

Healers have essentially turned into "Easy to learn, boring when mastered"

There is no attempt to accommodate all types of players, even though it's not just about casual vs hardcore, but also a wide range of players in-between who simply want a game to challenge them a bit and keep them occupied.

Respectfully, as has been repeated numerous times, difficulty (challenge) and engagement are two separate things.

Even if your doing the most mundane thing the game has to offer, it should still be fun.

[EgilTheStressedMage]

Healers have essentially turned into "Easy to learn, boring when mastered"

I hope I never "master" it then, it sounds utterly miserable.

[Thoosa]

Although if we are talking healers I think they have limited their possibilities (by sticking to an even split of shield vs pure) and each individual healer really doesn't have a unique identity or abilities, except maybe Sage and AST at a stretch?

If I (gulp) compare with WoW you have:

Shaman - totems, bloodlust, kind of a pure healer - ranged
Druid - more of a regen/hots healer and can be ranged and melee (with cat form) - you have to plan for damage and when you use your hots
Paladin - melee, sword and shield, big dps, nice strong powerful heals
Monk - also melee, not really played it but it looks fun
Priest (ranged) - holy spec is probably like WHM with big aoe heals and strong single target, then Disc Priest, which is a pure shield healer - cast your shields and madly DPS to generate heals (Disc is probably the hardest to play)

The above healers don't just have 1 dps spell and a dot and IMO have different identities and play styles which makes healing much more fun (plus you have to handle way more incoming damage and its not all predictable).

I think the above contributes to the boringness of healers. Tanks are in a similar place IMO, but not as bad.

[Nethereal]

I hope I never "master" it then, it sounds utterly miserable.

Play it enough, let it live rent free in your head and you'll get there in a year or 2.
It's definitely not something you think about when you're a new healer. When you first start out you're just worried about you and yourself dying or letting the party die.
Eventually that fear gets replaced by being afraid that people think you're bad because you have no idea what constitutes being good.
Once you reach the final conclusion you realize all you have left are those 2 buttons.

Although if we are talking healers I think they have limited their possibilities (by sticking to an even split of shield vs pure) and each individual healer really doesn't have a unique identity or abilities, except maybe Sage and AST at a stretch?

WHM is just AST but worse and easier. SGE is just SCH but different and easier.

[Minarisweet]

Wonder if the dev team will even care about this post

[kpxmanifesto]

Wonder if the dev team will even care about this post

Optimistic to think they've even bothered to read the post.

[ASkellington]

Wonder if the dev team will even care about this post

I'm sure if they didn't care about the other healer threads with multiple upvotes and posts they'll not care about this one...

*pokes last thread of hope* This thing ain't snapped yet so...

[Mimilu]

Wonder if the dev team will even care about this post

Outside of the JP forums, the devs don’t read the other forums. The community reps for that language supposedly read them then report back their findings.