Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Supersnow845]

People have fun in different ways, shocking.

This game is all about DPS so it feels bad to have to lose DPS in order to heal. Any catch up mechanics to make heals DPS neutral is timed to timers or limited resources, it's a good compromise to be able to use heals, don't feel bad about it and try to optimize your healing during certain windows. Healers are the only ones who have to sacrifice DPS in order to do their job.

The thing is that damage neutral heals add nothing to the game because they are just oGCD’s in disguise, if you deleted pneuma and replaced it with an oGCD 600 potency heal literally the only thing that would change is the ability to buff it with Zoe

WHM avoids this problem because since it requires more than one heal to get the refund you can stack damage in the burst window and WHM encourages you to buff GCD’s with temperance, asylum and plenary

The only reason I even suggested making all of SGE’s oGCD’s into GCD’s with a heal was to trick people who don’t notice the difference anyway into thinking SGE is more complex than what it is always

Damage neutral GCD heals aren’t a fix to the “healers are discouraged from healing to do more damage” because they are just oGcd’s in disguise

[Moqi]

So any time you do use them or feel forced to use them, it feels like you're doing something wrong rather than doing something right. In other words, this game has fostered an environment that makes the actual act of healing feel like the wrong choice.

That's what I'm saying. Lilies are great because as simple as they are, at worst it's damage neutral and at best they are a DPS increase and it's more dependent on your timing and performance than the party's need for heals.

You can make more complex systems to get your DPS back than a simple heal=>damage back guaranteed (it doesn't even have to be guaranteed, just look at TBN for a tank parallel), the point is that the reward for using all your abilities as efficiently as possible should be more DPS, like every other job. Right now every resource spent healing feels like the party working against you rather than an opportunity to shine for playing your role well.

[Supersnow845]

That's what I'm saying. Lilies are great because as simple as they are, at worst it's damage neutral and at best they are a DPS increase and it's more dependent on your timing and performance than the party's need for heals.

You can make more complex systems to get your DPS back than a simple heal=>damage back guaranteed (it doesn't even have to be guaranteed, just look at TBN for a tank parallel), the point is that the reward for using all your abilities as efficiently as possible should be more DPS, like every other job. Right now every resource spent healing feels like the party working against you rather than an opportunity to shine for playing your role well.

Except you haven’t really changed anything here, you’ve just subbed out oGCD’s for damage neutral GCD’s which is functionally the same thing

Lilys somewhat have a niche because they are unique in the design space but if everything was designed similarly where you could store GCD’s for the buff window it would just become part of expected DPS for healers

[Aravell]

This game is all about DPS so it feels bad to have to lose DPS in order to heal. Any catch up mechanics to make heals DPS neutral is timed to timers or limited resources, it's a good compromise to be able to use heals, don't feel bad about it and try to optimize your healing during certain windows. Healers are the only ones who have to sacrifice DPS in order to do their job.

Again, I have to ask, why does the game have to be designed around hurt feelings? If someone feels so bad about having to heal, maybe they prioritise personal damage so much that they should play a DPS job instead?

Healers in this game were designed to lose damage to heal from the very start. Why should the game have to compromise on design because Player A feels bad about pressing Succor?

It's also a fact that outside of week 1 savage and other top end content, nothing is designed to require above average healer damage output to clear. You're not going to wipe to Zeromus enrage because your WHM fat-fingered Medica 2 once.

[Moqi]

Again, I have to ask, why does the game have to be designed around hurt feelings?

What kind of question is that? Every game is designed so that players playing it are having fun and don't feel bad.

Healers in this game were designed to lose damage to heal from the very start.

And that's working out so well for them, everybody loves playing healers!

[Aravell]

What kind of question is that? Every game is designed so that players playing it are having fun and don't feel bad.

You said it yourself, different people enjoy different things. Shocker.

How about people play the things that make them happy instead of demanding changes to things that don't make them happy at the expense of the people who are happy with that at the time?

If someone feels so bad about healing losing damage, maybe play another role instead of asking for the players who enjoy that decision making aspect to lose all of that just so they can enjoy the role?

And that's working out so well for them, everybody loves playing healers!

Healers are unpopular for more complex reasons than "I lose the damage when I do the heal >", but you probably already knew that and decided to make this bad argument anyway.

[Moqi]

You said it yourself, different people enjoy different things. Shocker.

So you agree with me? Yet you're asking questions you already know the answer to? What??

How about people play the things that make them happy instead of demanding changes to things that don't make them happy at the expense of the people who are happy with that at the time?

Because this is the official forum and I'm leaving feedback for the devs to read about what I like and I don't. Why wouldn't I want things to change more to my linkings? My sub doesn't decrease beacause I don't like playing SCH right now and I'm not paying for the devs to develop things *you* like either. I don't know why you're taking this as a personal attack, you're free to play whatever you want however you like and it's none of my business. Unlike you, I'm not telling you to change a thing about what you want or like. You asked "How can people have any fun when none of their decisions matter?" and I gave you an answer.

Healers are unpopular for more complex reasons than "I lose the damage when I do the heal >", but you probably already knew that and decided to make this bad argument anyway.

And yet people were complaining about WHM ever since ARR because it didn't have oCGDs, the 2 healers that came after ARR mostly heal with oCGDs, nobody got a lot (or any) pure CGD heals after ARR and people stopped complaining about Lilies when they made them DPS neutral. There are certanly more reasons why people don't like playing healer but let's not act like they've been embracing the "healers sacrifice DPS to heal" philosphy.

[Aravell]

Because this is the official forum and I'm leaving feedback for the devs to read about what I like and I don't. Why wouldn't I want things to change more to my linkings? My sub doesn't decrease beacause I don't like playing SCH right now and I'm not paying for the devs to develop things *you* like either. I don't know why you're taking this as a personal attack, you're free to play whatever you want however you like and it's none of my business. Unlike you, I'm not telling you to change a thing about what you want or like. You asked "How can people have any fun when none of their decisions matter?" and I gave you an answer.

Where did I tell you to change what you like? I'm pointing out that if you value your personal damage that much, perhaps you'd enjoy the DPS role more instead of lamenting how you lose damage to heal.

Also I never took anything you said as a personal attack. You made a point. I am debating you. That is all. Not everything is an attack.

[Moqi]

I don't need you to tell me what to do lol, I know exactly what I like more than a stranger on the internet. That's such a weird thing to say.

[Valence]

People have fun in different ways, shocking.

This game is all about DPS so it feels bad to have to lose DPS in order to heal. Any catch up mechanics to make heals DPS neutral is timed to timers or limited resources, it's a good compromise to be able to use heals, don't feel bad about it and try to optimize your healing during certain windows. Healers are the only ones who have to sacrifice DPS in order to do their job.

That's a fair point to be honest. I tend to chalk it up to an increasingly brutal focus of the game onto the damage/dps meta since SHB. It was already here before, but less so. There is no chaos in encounters, there is no scrappy gameplay left anywhere. If there was, parties would actually be struggling to stay alive constantly instead of just playing DDR and pressing buttons to parse higher. Maybe healers would be more valued into doing their actual job instead of having only parsing left as a lofty goal to reach.

But it's been softened again and again for the precise reason that healing had a way too high weight as a role and it stressed its players too hard, introducing friction with others as well. Or something.