Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[4clubbedace]

I have done Nisi. I have raid since mid 2.3. This has been the expansion with the biggest healing uproar so far. And if they continue with the current trend, the healing comp is going to be sch/sge going forward with the regen healers falling behind.

its because healing doesnt exist in a vaccume, all roles and classes play off each other. each dps has one mitigation (some get to be special and have two) and tanks by nature are also catogorized as support.

surrrrrreee midas and gordias could have been more instresting for healers , but they were such nightmare fights that again, nearly killed the scene entirely, shit , /i/ quit back then.

also nisi does punish yhe group if you mess it up, hence why i used it as a repsonse

[Maltothoris]

But given how they do fights, it wouldn't be a surprise if say a world first does do it without healers at this point and the benchmark so far isn't doing any favors for new actions so far.

Edit: Cause it wasn't just top that was cleared without healers, but also p12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKYa3K70ek

and also aloalo criterion normal no healer https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1974813948

[ty_taurus]

To be fair, and this is something I've said for months, even if the healers are being reworked, or feedback is being addressed in some capacity, I wouldn't think we'd know that from the benchmark. With Endwalker, we saw a lot of teased animations were just upgrades of existing actions, including jobs that did get more substantial changes like Monk. And I think that's just a decision being made to hide more important details for the job actions trailer. Even if they planned on using DT to start addressing healer feedback and not add any new healing actions since healers already have too many, I imagine they'd still want some of the healers healing in the trailer anyway because that makes more sense from a thematic standpoint. Honestly, if upgrades to Medica and Helios are all they had to show for new healing actions, then maybe that's a good thing, because it might mean that whatever else healers get doesn't have to do with even more healing bloat.

Taking a look at Samurai for a second, it's interesting that something that looks similar to Tenka Goken is a cone AOE. Endwalker made the decision to change Samurai's cones to circle AOEs, something that was criticized for being kind of unnecessary, and while relatively minor in the grand scheme of things, took away a subtle, yet satisfying aspect to playing Samurai. So it's interesting to see that they're giving them more cones again as that could indicate being receptive to Samurai feedback from its more passionate playerbase. What does that indicate for jobs like Summoner, Dark Knight, or the healers?

I certainly won't be holding my breath on these things, but I am starting to look toward the media tour with a the tiniest sprinkle of cautious optimism.

[4clubbedace]

But given how they do fights, it wouldn't be a surprise if say a world first does do it without healers at this point and the benchmark so far isn't doing any favors for new actions so far.

Edit: Cause it wasn't just top that was cleared without healers, but also p12s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKYa3K70ek

and also aloalo criterion normal no healer https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1974813948

yes and ucob has been done without tanks, and even from the poeple doing it its is a niche , highly coodinated, and luck based endeavor these are not the norm and not something a random pick up group would attempt or could even do.

[Maltothoris]

yes and ucob has been done without tanks, and even from the poeple doing it its is a niche , highly coodinated, and luck based endeavor these are not the norm and not something a random pick up group would attempt or could even do.

Well my argument is that either of these should of been able to be done in the first place, including the no tank ucob.

Edit: This game is a trinity based game and thus should just try to adhere to as much as possible in accordance their own stated goals.

[4clubbedace]

Well my argument is that either of these should of been able to be done in the first place, including the no tank ucob.

Edit: This game is a trinity based game and thus should just try to adhere to as much as possible in accordance their own stated goals.

Its not an argument, youre just saying "but i dont like this"
none of these were done on launch, they were done with at least 20 ilevels past their min (what theyre balanced for) or two whole expacs behind

so the actual argument that people that primarily heal want is either more frequent/intense healing that makes early ilevel prog a nightmare, or more damage buttons and less healing buttons

[Maltothoris]

Its not an argument, youre just saying "but i dont like this"
none of these were done on launch, they were done with at least 20 ilevels past their min (what theyre balanced for) or two whole expacs behind

so the actual argument that people that primarily heal want is either more frequent/intense healing that makes early ilevel prog a nightmare, or more damage buttons and less healing buttons

But this is where the devs are spineless in that regard. We have the MR Happy interview where Yoshi P said "he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers." And then on the other hand, we have the mizzteq interview

But that said we don't want to make the content impossible for players with not as high skill level to clear. Because if we make it too intense, the number of people who can clear the content will be very limited. We don't want to have a situation where somebody is just healing the whole time, like All the time, or like we have to HAVE to manage MP constantly.

[4clubbedace]

But this is where the devs are spineless in that regard. We have the MR Happy interview where Yoshi P said "he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers." And then on the other hand, we have the mizzteq interview

"he understands the dps aspect but doesn't want to add dramatic additions because we don't want to scare new healers."
" don't want to make the content impossible for players with not as high skill level to clear. Because if we make it too intense, the number of people who can clear the content will be very limited. "

new healers and less skilled healers are a venndiagram so small its almost a circle. nothing about these parts of the statments are incongruous.

"We don't want to have a situation where somebody is just healing the whole time, like All the time, or like we have to HAVE to manage MP constantly." this part swings either way, but doesnt detract either. the fear i can see them putting on a strict rotation where healing can potentially harm said rotation. that fear cant be validated or dismissed unless its tried, and no one wants that fear validated if it makes the population of healer primaries even smaller. and frankly healers dont heal all the time, its a spell and dot with, primarily, ogcds.

A increased complexity of the healers damage will just end up with healers hemogenized into the way tanks play. one hotbar weaved in heals in mit between a damage combo.

im not sure if this is what /everyone/ wants,

[Maltothoris]

Well they have to do something. As it stands, the discontent is just growing from all sides. And don't lecture on how healers heal or damage since I have been doing this since 2.1

[4clubbedace]

Well they have to do something. As it stands, the discontent is just growing from all sides. And don't lecture on how healers heal or damage since I have been doing this since 2.1

new healers that play healers now have as much as a say as ones whove been playing for a decade, seniority doesnt give your words more weight