Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Deceptus]

Isn't it always fun to have to painfully parse through a full party list with everybody full of buffs and debuffs in order to find the ONE debuff you're looking for in an incoming mechanic? Nisi style in TEA, etc.

You'll have your debuff vomit and you'll like it.

All it does is incentivize raid callout "tools".

[Aravell]

I don't really feel like boss fights are a power struggle between us and them, but almost more of a stage play or something.

There do exist some fights that actually feel like a struggle, so they can actually design fights like that. Unfortunately, it's mostly old fights or ultimate phases.

Nael phase in UCoB felt like you were actually fighting someone that wants you dead, Living Liquid in TEA as well, Nidhogg in DSR also felt like he wants to kill you, all very fun phases that incorporate environmental tells, boss tells, player markers and player debuffs.

Meanwhile, TOP does have quite a bit of debuff vomit, which would explain why it's had such mixed reviews.

[Supersnow845]

Pheonix is another fight that feels like you are fighting a boss who is just vomitting mechanics at you actively trying to kill you not playing a stage play with

Though to be fair most of the coils bosses feels this way (I guess except maybe melusine), but coils barely feels like it belongs in this game anymore

[vetch]

There do exist some fights that actually feel like a struggle, so they can actually design fights like that. Unfortunately, it's mostly old fights or ultimate phases.

Nael phase in UCoB felt like you were actually fighting someone that wants you dead, Living Liquid in TEA as well, Nidhogg in DSR also felt like he wants to kill you, all very fun phases that incorporate environmental tells, boss tells, player markers and player debuffs.

Meanwhile, TOP does have quite a bit of debuff vomit, which would explain why it's had such mixed reviews.

Kenji Sudo was responsible for most of the really good fights of this type in ARR and HW and he left the dev team after designing UCoB. Seems like the ability to make good hectic fights that build on themselves rather than relying on bespoke DDR megamechanics gradually withered away to a couple times per expansion after he was gone.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Debuff vomit mechanics have never been high in my list of well liked mechanics. I have to squint real hard to see those icons. Spotting another's mistake also becomes an issue because of that. They were fine when there weren't as many. At this point though I'm getting sick of it.

[Absurdity]

I really don’t like debuff check mechanics. I don’t see why those mechanics aren’t just given different types of telegraph indicators that communicate the same information in a much clearer way. I mean, I know the answer is “to make it harder” but it’s only harder my a smidge, and not in a fun way either. Making the challenge about squinting at a tiny icon to know what you need to do rather than some numbers overlaying your character is a really artificial way of adding difficulty.

I'd put it in the same group of "difficulty" as reading Nael quotes to figure out the mechanic in the middle of UCoB, not fun at best and annoying at worst. Difficulty through bad UI isn't exactly high on the list of good mechanics.

...and very likely to just make people use 3rd party tools.

Pheonix is another fight that feels like you are fighting a boss who is just vomitting mechanics at you actively trying to kill you not playing a stage play with

Though to be fair most of the coils bosses feels this way (I guess except maybe melusine), but coils barely feels like it belongs in this game anymore

Coil felt like their attempt at a WoW-style raid, something they completely discarded in Stormblood, when every fight just became a circular or square arena with a big bad in it.

[Valence]

Kinda related to the topic, but I want to see more fights that feel less like you are managing game pieces, and more like the boss is genuinely trying to kill the party -- like the feeling should less resolving a mechanic, and more surviving an onslaught.

I wish that too. E4S felt great for that. It felt brutal. A few others did as well, especially in the past (Omega Pantokrator, etc).

Oh and Harrowing Hell >:3

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I wish that too. E4S felt great for that. It felt brutal. A few others did as well, especially in the past (Omega Pantokrator, etc).

Oh and Harrowing Hell >:3

E4S p3 alternating penta tumult and the big raid wide was an absolute slammer and I thematically loved the big + small titan combo. Harrowing Hell definitely plays along that tune and I love it.

[Aravell]

I honestly think that the current design of debuff vomit that instantly wipes everyone when one person fails is aimed at reducing the importance of a good healer.

In E4S, the final bit with small and big Titan is very healing intensive with the Tumults and the Earthen Fury DoT. If people die to damage, it's very obviously the healers fault. Same with Harrowing Hell, it puts a lot of the responsibility on the healers to get their healing right, so people just tank LB it to ignore the problem.

Now, they just design fights so anyone can wipe the party entirely so the healer doesn't have to be made to feel bad.

[4clubbedace]

THey really do seem to have an aversion to fights that were an extreme challenge to the community. Hardly anything like A3s, A4s, A8s or Kefka.

midas and gordias nearly killed the raid scene, so no, prob best to notdo that again.