Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Mortex]

Like sgn beats sch at median 50 % almost all the time and i argue 50 % logs is a good indicator for a decent chunk of the player base. The only time sch wins these "log battles" is if the co healer does all the healing and you can use energy drain all the time. While on the other hand sgn does close dmg without losing healing and mitigations. Like we can argue and all but the most glaring difference is energy drain being a dps button for aetherflow. So in any normal setting sch will not do more dmg then sage and maybe has like a bit more utility for being super mega clunky. Like i said nothing against if people like that but saying sch does more dmg in a realistic scenario is just not true.


Edit: Even in 80 % logs does sgn beats sch in dps so no clue where the idea comes sch does in realistic situations more dmg. Like im a air plane in some specific situations.

[Supersnow845]

Like sgn beats sch at median 50 % almost all the time and i argue 50 % logs is a good indicator for a decent chunk of the player base. The only time sch wins these "log battles" is if the co healer does all the healing and you can use energy drain all the time. While on the other hand sgn does close dmg without losing healing and mitigations. Like we can argue and all but the most glaring difference is energy drain being a dps button for aetherflow. So in any normal setting sch will not do more dmg then sage and maybe has like a bit more utility for being super mega clunky. Like i said nothing against if people like that but saying sch does more dmg in a realistic scenario is just not true.


Edit: Even in 80 % logs does sgn beats sch in dps so no clue where the idea comes sch does in realistic situations more dmg. Like im a air plane in some specific situations.

It’s an rDPS job this always applies, SCH’s damage variance against SGE isn’t coming from padding on energy drain it’s coming from chain

[rawker]

The problem is the talk about sch doing more dmg when in any normal run they both do almost the same dmg. And good sch run is padding the hell out of energy drain (his co healer does 99 heals in all of any high sch logs) while in comparison every sgn log is the sage almost always doing more heal then his co partner.

In a very specific padding situation sch does more dmg but in a full realistic situation its almost the same dmg and for the amount of hoops you have to jump through. Like if people like that i dont say anything against it its just way more effort for almost the same.

It has always been the case since ARR that the healer who has a more optimal healing rotation or whose dps rotation caps relatively low will always take hit in their dps since they lose lower while the other healer who can push higher dps is expected to do so all while supplementing the healing done by their co-healers.

[Mortex]

It’s an rDPS job this always applies, SCH’s damage variance against SGE isn’t coming from padding on energy drain it’s coming from chain

Then how is sch losing in RDPS vs sgn in a 80 % log. Could be because Chain is one of the most rng based rdps gains in ff 14 history same with Litany

i take the 101 log in P11S for sch and sgn so a 80 % log. Sch does 8,076.5 rDps while sgn does 8,207.1 rDps. If chain does so much why is there a 130 dps diff on a healer that has way way way less work to do.

[Supersnow845]

Then how is sch losing in RDPS vs sgn in a 80 % log. Could be because Chain is one of the most rng based rdps gains in ff 14 history same with Litany

i take the 101 log in P11S for sch and sgn so a 80 % log. Sch does 8,076.5 rDps while sgn does 8,207.1 rDps. If chain does so much why is there a 130 dps diff on a healer that has way way way less work to do.

Because as I said rDPS jobs really only pass pDPS at very high percentiles

It’s not like SCH is working that much harder than SGE anyway, ED really isn’t as big of a factor as you are making it out to be here. SGE is always going to win in lower percentiles, that’s basically how it’s designed to work

[Aravell]

I don't see the point in trying to show SGE having higher HPS than SCH, considering that SGE is designed in a way that almost everything they do has healing attached.

Panhaima? Got a heal. Holos? Yep, got that heal. Physis/Kerachole/Ixochole? Heals all over. Pneuma? Yep, there's that heal.

[Mortex]

I don't see the point in trying to show SGE having higher HPS than SCH, considering that SGE is designed in a way that almost everything they do has healing attached.

Panhaima? Got a heal. Holos? Yep, got that heal. Physis/Kerachole/Ixochole? Heals all over. Pneuma? Yep, there's that heal.

i was bored and used a calculator for the healing abilities with values and left normal fairy and kardia out of the entire caculation.

Sage has with all tools and no Zoe plus Pneuma 4950 healing potency and all his tools, with zoe pneuma you are at 5550 (i left out dissipation and rhizomata out of the entire math). That takes in Haima and panhaima, holos(plus shield), Physis(not the 10 % bonus heal), bubble hot and aoe heal.

Scholar has 5640 if you let the fairy use aetherpact for the entire duration. Plus i only took in one single seraph single target cast that heals 180 and gives a 180 shield into the calculation (sch would be even higher if we would count the entire duration of seraph into the caculation because its a 2 minute cd). So in short sch has if you dont use energy drain for the entire fioght and only focus on healing as minimal more healing potency on the abilities then sgn.

[Mortex]

Because as I said rDPS jobs really only pass pDPS at very high percentiles

It’s not like SCH is working that much harder than SGE anyway, ED really isn’t as big of a factor as you are making it out to be here. SGE is always going to win in lower percentiles, that’s basically how it’s designed to work

Energy drain in TOP world logs does around 400 dps gain for sch thats 6 % total dmg from. the dot does 14 % how is that not a big factor. Like it takes minimal 5-10 mins looking up sch and sgn logs in comparison and see why sch does more dmg in like 100 % logs but not in 80 % logs (if you count 80% logs as not very high percentiles and only the start 98% as very high percentiles i really dont know what to say).

Sch in super duper niche situations does more dmg yes. But first they arent anything you can do in PF or your co healer will wanna eat you alive and not something you can do with pugs. Like pls tell me 80 % logs or 50 % log arent a good indicator for the normal pf situations. Like scholar only in 98 logs wins around with 100 dps more then sgn. But like i said if you really consider super niche

[Deceptus]

Its the sad reality that energy drain for logs is a pretty good dps gain. Like we talk about 366 dps for 73 drains in a downtime fight like top (and these people do life in the fight)

But most people aren't spending 24 min in a fight. It's usually half that. 10-12m

3 drains amounts to a single extra broil cast every minute.

woo hoo /s

[Bun_Vivant]

... SGE is designed in a way that almost everything they do has healing attached.

Panhaima? Got a heal. Holos? Yep, got that heal. Physis/Kerachole/Ixochole? Heals all over. Pneuma? Yep, there's that heal.

Good point, but they need to add a heal to Icarus IMO. I love Icarus