Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[IDontPetLalas]

"Over simplifying a game impacts more than the game but the attitude of the community. Super simple games do not encourage people to come together, they go at each others throats because the new people don't realize how hollow it is, and the people who are experienced don't realize how shallow the water is in the pool consciously and then tell these people to go read a simple guide on job rotation or whatever that takes all of 10 minutes to read, then go practice on a striking dummy."

First of all I don't see the "going at each other's throats" being applicable, in some cases there are people who are going to be unreasonable but that's probably intrinsic to their personality, I don't see the root cause being due to the game design. A job design doesn't have to be complex to be done well, as this thread is focussed on healers specifically - look at the number of buttons currently available to healers in PvP- each of the healers is functional and has a unique feel.

To rephrase what you are saying, part of what makes a healer interesting is the decision making - choosing to use a DPS skill or a heal, another part is a flexible choice in DPS skills- hitting only "1" is boring - especially in solo play, another part is the levelling experience- healers really don't get a feeling of power as they go from about level 30 to endgame..I could go on. Also - the reference to the striking dummy is rather irrelevant to healers - it's more like (if you've boosted) - if you've never healed, run with trusts or a low level dungeon until you're comfortable.

[ty_taurus]

First of all I don't see the "going at each other's throats" being applicable, in some cases there are people who are going to be unreasonable but that's probably intrinsic to their personality, I don't see the root cause being due to the game design. A job design doesn't have to be complex to be done well, as this thread is focussed on healers specifically - look at the number of buttons currently available to healers in PvP- each of the healers is functional and has a unique feel.

We don't need 20 different buttons to heal in slightly different ways. Having a smaller but more effective selection of more specific types of healing tools is a far more interesting way to approach to healing, and that same logic can apply to DPS as well, particularly when such tools interact in dynamic ways.

It actually makes me wonder if each job were rebuilt from the ground up with that mentality, with a total of say 16 buttons on each job, what would that look like?

[OliviaLugria]

If you did shadow bringer pvp you'd have a good idea. Those were some of the most well designed jobs xiv has done.

More healers should have done feast if they wanted high skill healing. You were happy you only had 3 dps buttons because you didn't have time to be pressing them.

[IDontPetLalas]

If you did shadow bringer pvp you'd have a good idea. Those were some of the most well designed jobs xiv has done.

More healers should have done feast if they wanted high skill healing. You were happy you only had 3 dps buttons because you didn't have time to be pressing them.

I've seen that in other games, and I agree, it can be quite satisfying- albeit nerve wracking at times in PvP . However I'd be quite happy - in fact happier- to have a good balance of both DPS and healing skills in PVE which I haven't given up on in this game.

[OliviaLugria]

I think you saw my healer redesigns? I'm also an advocate for much more dps centered healers. To much of the game's content simply doesn't facilitate needing to heal, and they're not going to retroactively change it. I'd rather have something that feels good in all contents than only one super niche one.

[IDontPetLalas]

My apologies, I may not have, I'll have to take a look, it sounds interesting.

[Supersnow845]

I’m not saying this against your your point above just as an observance, I feel like 14 needs healers to do the level of damage they do currently otherwise the WOL cannot really be a healer

Like let’s pick a random moment from the MSQ……..say when you fight Zenos as rhalgars reach, if healers in this game were designed as sylphies healing paper tanks how would this fight actually go

The WOL is the single strongest person (assumed) on the entire planet, if they chose to main a caster they should be incredibly adept at it, sylphie healers really don’t work with the lore of who the WOL is

[Deceptus]

Like let’s pick a random moment from the MSQ……..say when you fight Zenos as rhalgars reach, if healers in this game were designed as sylphies healing paper tanks how would this fight actually go

The WOL is the single strongest person (assumed) on the entire planet, if they chose to main a caster they should be incredibly adept at it, sylphie healers really don’t work with the lore of who the WOL is

Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

[Niroken]

Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

For some reason that made me think of having Cleric Stance back and make your healing skills target and do damage to the enemy.

Besides Benediction... that would just be OP.

[Supersnow845]

Or put another way: You can't heal the enemy to death. Healers are required to do damage to do the MSQ.

I’m not even necessarily discussing the fact that it wouldn’t make sense from a gameplay perspective, I mean from an actual in game lore perspective. Like how can the WOL be the most powerful person in the world if they literally can’t do damage

The idea that healers are also accomplished damage casters makes lore sense