Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Maltothoris]

The first iteration of Plenary was actually nice to have for exactly one mechanic, Neverwhere in O4S P2. It's really funny that they created a job ability that's usable for exactly one mechanic in the entire game at the time.

Well actually the first iterantion of PI was that it could only be gained via cure 1 and cure 2 with a 20 percent chance. Then it stacks were based on potency of 400 to 500 to 600 with a cd of 15 seconds. This of course was just the chance of getting them was too low and you had to use single target heals in order to get them

[Supersnow845]

Seriously I just don’t get the logic at all, in HW GCD AOE healing was still rather common because of the limited number of oGCD’s and the lack of weave space but single target GCD healing had been falling out of favour ever since thordan was about the last boss to have dangerous autos, even today in this weird healer situation we have where some people just refuse to press damage buttons they are still more likely to spam medica 2 than cure 2.

The system still would have been bad but why didn’t they make it proc off cure 3, medica and medica 2, for example I could actually see a use for old plenary and old lily’s in mechanics like Garuda cleanses or kefka’s 759185819 white hole mechanics if plenary procced off AOE heals and AOE heals allowed you to use assize and asylum more often

But literally nobody was GCD single target healing since about coils, I don’t see how they could have missed that so badly, like the modern meta you can justify why it exists (even if it’s bad) I literally can not invent a justification for SB lily’s or plenary

[Aravell]

Well actually the first iterantion of PI was that it could only be gained via cure 1 and cure 2 with a 20 percent chance. Then it stacks were based on potency of 400 to 500 to 600 with a cd of 15 seconds. This of course was just the chance of getting them was too low and you had to use single target heals in order to get them

Right, I forgot about the launch version. That one made no sense, using a single target heal to stack an AoE heal is just weird.

Seriously I just don’t get the logic at all, in HW GCD AOE healing was still rather common because of the limited number of oGCD’s and the lack of weave space but single target GCD healing had been falling out of favour ever since thordan was about the last boss to have dangerous autos, even today in this weird healer situation we have where some people just refuse to press damage buttons they are still more likely to spam medica 2 than cure 2.

The system still would have been bad but why didn’t they make it proc off cure 3, medica and medica 2, for example I could actually see a use for old plenary and old lily’s in mechanics like Garuda cleanses or kefka’s 759185819 white hole mechanics if plenary procced off AOE heals and AOE heals allowed you to use assize and asylum more often

But literally nobody was GCD single target healing since about coils, I don’t see how they could have missed that so badly, like the modern meta you can justify why it exists (even if it’s bad) I literally can not invent a justification for SB lily’s or plenary

You are talking about a dev team that also thinks that SCH used to sit in Cleric Stance for the entire fight and forced the WHM to do all of the healing.

[Supersnow845]

Right, I forgot about the launch version. That one made no sense, using a single target heal to stack an AoE heal is just weird.



You are talking about a dev team that also thinks that SCH used to sit in Cleric Stance for the entire fight and forced the WHM to do all of the healing.

To be fair in ARR while that wasn’t exactly true it wasn’t really untrue either, rather than being defined as shield and regen in ARR they were more like “single target and AOE healer”

Seeing the SCH sit in cleric stance for long periods of time and use percentage lustrate on the tank and throw down soils who’s mitigation was unaffected by cleric stance while the WHM was in charge of more powerful AOE healing (also partially because SCH’s AOE healing was hot garbage in ARR) wasn’t uncommon, people overestimate how much SCH could avoid swapping out of cleric stance (especially when they removed the percentage heal on lustrate) but I’m more willing to forgive them that mantra than whatever led to SB lily’s

[ty_taurus]

Again, I can only continue to draw parallels to Sage's Addersting and Toxikon. A resource originally obtained only from single target barrier application, eventually assigned to AOE as well after realizing just how little players actively use single target healing, and for a reward that continues to be highly inconsequential considering the payment required to earn it. Mobility might not be nothing, but it certainly isn't something when it comes at the cost of a full GCD's worth of DPS anyway, and the weave window it provides is now largely a vestigial trait since EW streamlined all basic healer attacks to have a built-in weave window with every filler cast. It's not like you need Toxikon to comfortably weave outside of E. Dosis or Phlegma casts.

[Aravell]

To be fair in ARR while that wasn’t exactly true it wasn’t really untrue either, rather than being defined as shield and regen in ARR they were more like “single target and AOE healer”

Seeing the SCH sit in cleric stance for long periods of time and use percentage lustrate on the tank and throw down soils who’s mitigation was unaffected by cleric stance while the WHM was in charge of more powerful AOE healing (also partially because SCH’s AOE healing was hot garbage in ARR) wasn’t uncommon, people overestimate how much SCH could avoid swapping out of cleric stance (especially when they removed the percentage heal on lustrate) but I’m more willing to forgive them that mantra than whatever led to SB lily’s

To be fair, I can see why they would think there would be more emphasis on single target heals in SB. Look at the fights, O4S P2 had 3 different tankbusters (Aero III, Earthshakers, Double Attack), so did O8S P2 (Hyperdrive, Ultimate Embrace, Double Wings). It's very likely that they assumed tanks would get their HP chunked hard in SB (they did, kind of). But in practice, there's usually not a lot of need for single target heals because AoE heals can catch the tanks too (also regens).

[Supersnow845]

Again, I can only continue to draw parallels to Sage's Addersting and Toxikon. A resource originally obtained only from single target barrier application, eventually assigned to AOE as well after realizing just how little players actively use single target healing, and for a reward that continues to be highly inconsequential considering the payment required to earn it. Mobility might not be nothing, but it certainly isn't something when it comes at the cost of a full GCD's worth of DPS anyway, and the weave window it provides is now largely a vestigial trait since EW streamlined all basic healer attacks to have a built-in weave window with every filler cast. It's not like you need Toxikon to comfortably weave outside of E. Dosis or Phlegma casts.

Which the funny thing is if they didn’t have the 1.5 second cast time then toxicon would actually be a useful skill because it would be the SGE equivalent to ruin 2 they could even up the potency so while it’s still a loss it’s a gain over clipping dosis, you get 2 weave slots and you get to shield someone who may need it

But they made their own skill vestigial by giving everyone infinite free weave space

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Giving everybody and their mother a 1.50s cast time is quite possibly one of the worst thing they could've done to healers. It should've been AST-exclusive perk.

[ty_taurus]

Which the funny thing is if they didn’t have the 1.5 second cast time then toxicon would actually be a useful skill because it would be the SGE equivalent to ruin 2 they could even up the potency so while it’s still a loss it’s a gain over clipping dosis, you get 2 weave slots and you get to shield someone who may need it

But they made their own skill vestigial by giving everyone infinite free weave space

I'd still argue locking it behind GCD healing usage is a terrible idea because it kind of invalidates the point of having a mobility tool/weave tool. Mobility and weaving exists to maximize DPS output, so requiring the player drop DPS to earn that is antithetical to the point of those tools existing in the first place. If healing were still more like ARR/HW healing in the sense that dropping DPS to heal was something you'd do regularly and an expected aspect of healing gameplay, then that might make it more worthwhile, but even still I don't think it's something that should be gated behind a resource.

ARR's Scholar having Ruin II just cost twice the MP was, in my opinion, the perfect way to handle that because it gives you agency in how to manage your mobility and weaving potential while counter-balancing them with MP management.

[Absurdity]

Seeing the SCH sit in cleric stance for long periods of time and use percentage lustrate on the tank and throw down soils who’s mitigation was unaffected by cleric stance while the WHM was in charge of more powerful AOE healing (also partially because SCH’s AOE healing was hot garbage in ARR) wasn’t uncommon, people overestimate how much SCH could avoid swapping out of cleric stance (especially when they removed the percentage heal on lustrate) but I’m more willing to forgive them that mantra than whatever led to SB lily’s

I would've been willing to forgive them if they didn't still think that 3 expansions later. They nerfed Energy Drain's potency in the middle of Shadowbringers with their reasoning being that SCHs were spending all their Aetherflow on DPS and let the WHM do all the healing...which just showed an utter lack of knowledge.