Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Supersnow845]

I assume they're still mad about all the negative feedback when they revealed Stormblood lilies early on. Maybe there wouldn't be so much negative feedback if they actually understand how players are playing the healer role and actually put some thought into the design.

It would help if SB lilies weren’t literally the single worst thing the design team ever created

They bought that down upon themselves

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

I assume they're still mad about all the negative feedback when they revealed Stormblood lilies early on. Maybe there wouldn't be so much negative feedback if they actually understand how players are playing the healer role and actually put some thought into the design.

So much for the “Please give us your feedback!”-speech lmao.

StB Lilies at its rawest concept wasn't even a necessarily terrible idea IMHO (as in, using lily system as a resource to maintain AND spend rather than the latter only). Taking their idea as a basis, I conceived something along the line of the following:

1. Each Lily increases damage dealt by 3%, healing magic potency by 15%, and increases healing magic radius by 3y.
2. 3rd Lily reduce cast time by 12%
3. Lily timer is back at 30s. They will continue to tick even after 3rd lily is up.
4. All GCD spells benefits from the accumulated lilies. Yes, Cure II can become a concentrated powerful AoE heal ala old Cure III. Current Cure III can be expanded.
5. Lily spells also benefits the same, but using them consumes the lilies so any subsequent heals will become weaker. Non-lily GCD do not spend those lilies but MP cost are hefty.

Obviously that’s not all. I.e. plenary would’ve been deleted because the baked in potencies would kinda already do more or less the same result. The list goes on but I don’t want to flood.

But yeah ofc lmao they’d never understood the issue with that trash fire old system was the generation & its reward from interacting with the system. Y’know what? Let’s just wait till it’s too late to give feedback or whatsoever. Please look forward for next change in 3 years.

[ty_taurus]

Addersting is the new SB lilies. An impossibly small maybe DPS gain if you’re otherwise forced to move for 5 seconds straight or more attached to almost the worst heals on your hotbar. Not a far jump from the impossibly small maybe DPS gain earned from an extra Assize usage earned from cooldown reduction generated by the almost worst heals on your hotbar (the actual worst if we’re talking about launch SB lilies).

[Colt47]

I mean ultimately, healers take longer to kill things than any other role and the vast majority of enemies hit like small children to the point that the only jobs even threatened by most things are DPS roles, so it isn't exactly the role people play to have fun when off on their own. That alone is one major reason why healers are sort of unfun in this system. It's also why I'm not the biggest fan of the trinity system because unless the world is more dangerous and people can actually die from overworld enemies, playing anything other than a strict damage dealer is pointless. The only reason the roles are even needed is because of dungeon requirements and very specific attacks from enemies that only show up in dungeons.

Also this literally has been the expansion where people can complete expert roulette and other instanced fights without ever bringing a healer at all. The role is completely forgettable and redundant.

[Maltothoris]

The big thing for me about stormblood lilies was that at no point during that expansion did they ever try to make it better in any shape or form for the most part. The best you got was in 4.05 when cure 1 went from 50 percent to 100 percent. Then in all the later patches, they basically admitted defeat when they took divine bension from needing a lily to be used and then in 4.5 when they super buffed Assize with the cd going from 60 to 45 and damage and heal potency from 300 to 400 to go along with all the enmity reductions that they finally give to whm in 4.5 after years of ignoring those requests along with the buff to plenary.

[ty_taurus]

The big thing for me about stormblood lilies was that at no point during that expansion did they ever try to make it better in any shape or form for the most part. The best you got was in 4.05 when cure 1 went from 50 percent to 100 percent. Then in all the later patches, they basically admitted defeat when they took divine bension from needing a lily to be used and then in 4.5 when they super buffed Assize with the cd going from 60 to 45 and damage and heal potency from 300 to 400 to go along with all the enmity reductions that they finally give to whm in 4.5 after years of ignoring those requests along with the buff to plenary.

We haven't even talked about Plenary lately. OG Plenary was, I would say, even worse than the lilies. But to be honest, I feel this all also applies to Addersting. There's been 0 effort to do anything about it. They knew no one was generating any Addersting which is why they have you start with 3 at the beginning of an instance, because those are very likely the only 3 you'll ever use, if you even do. But that isn't a solution. And to add salt to the wound, PVP Addersting works exactly as how it was described by Yoshi P before EW launched. They know how to make a good Addersting, but they aren't either as a blatant insult to players who criticized healer design in Shadowbringers since Addersting and Toxikon are what were given to Sage to try and respond to that criticism, which we can infer based on Yoshi P's description, or they're that out of touch with how healers actually play that they remade the same mistake of locking resource generation behind your dinky GCD heals that no decent Sage actually uses outside of EX/Savage/Ultimate prog.

[Nizzi]

We haven't even talked about Plenary lately. OG Plenary was, I would say, even worse than the lilies. But to be honest, I feel this all also applies to Addersting. There's been 0 effort to do anything about it. They knew no one was generating any Addersting which is why they have you start with 3 at the beginning of an instance, because those are very likely the only 3 you'll ever use, if you even do. But that isn't a solution. And to add salt to the wound, PVP Addersting works exactly as how it was described by Yoshi P before EW launched. They know how to make a good Addersting, but they aren't either as a blatant insult to players who criticized healer design in Shadowbringers since Addersting and Toxikon are what were given to Sage to try and respond to that criticism, which we can infer based on Yoshi P's description, or they're that out of touch with how healers actually play that they remade the same mistake of locking resource generation behind your dinky GCD heals that no decent Sage actually uses outside of EX/Savage/Ultimate prog.

I feel like it isn't touched upon enough how sloppy Sage was at EW launch; you had to wait a full minute to get full Addersgall vs SCH hitting Aetherflow immediately and having full stacks, you had to do really stupid prepull individual shields on people and hope that they would break to get Addersting, Holos sucked, Eukrasian Diagnosis didn't grant Addersting at all, etc. Everyone who mains a healer knows that the devs don't really care, but the fact that they put so little effort into the new job feeling good right out of the gate was really telling for me. Of course, this isn't anything new, every expansion drop has a healer that ends up in a bad state relatively to where it was the previous expansion; but they didn't even seem to do basic thinking of how to make its job systems work or at least have parity with Scholar since it's clearly just copied homework in that regard. That's why I enthusiastically describe it as "Scholar but worse" because it's not "SCH but QoL" it's a design philosophy of "How can we take as much from Scholar as possible and change it to seem different without thinking of why it works this way for SCH?"

As it stands Addersting is pretty bad. The only 'upside' I can list for it is the fact that it makes your shields cost 500 MP instead of 900, but saving the MP cost of a Dosis is really not anything good comparative to how bad it works to begin with. But there's really nothing they can work with for Sage as long as they're keeping the philosophy of 'not wanting to pressure new healers to do DPS so we won't be adding more DPS actions', because for some reason, teaching bad fundamentals that run contrary to how the game itself is designed is considered good game design when it comes to healers in FFXIV.

[ty_taurus]

I feel like it isn't touched upon enough how sloppy Sage was at EW launch; you had to wait a full minute to get full Addersgall vs SCH hitting Aetherflow immediately and having full stacks, you had to do really stupid prepull individual shields on people and hope that they would break to get Addersting, Holos sucked, Eukrasian Diagnosis didn't grant Addersting at all, etc. Everyone who mains a healer knows that the devs don't really care, but the fact that they put so little effort into the new job feeling good right out of the gate was really telling for me. Of course, this isn't anything new, every expansion drop has a healer that ends up in a bad state relatively to where it was the previous expansion; but they didn't even seem to do basic thinking of how to make its job systems work or at least have parity with Scholar since it's clearly just copied homework in that regard. That's why I enthusiastically describe it as "Scholar but worse" because it's not "SCH but QoL" it's a design philosophy of "How can we take as much from Scholar as possible and change it to seem different without thinking of why it works this way for SCH?"

As it stands Addersting is pretty bad. The only 'upside' I can list for it is the fact that it makes your shields cost 500 MP instead of 900, but saving the MP cost of a Dosis is really not anything good comparative to how bad it works to begin with. But there's really nothing they can work with for Sage as long as they're keeping the philosophy of 'not wanting to pressure new healers to do DPS so we won't be adding more DPS actions', because for some reason, teaching bad fundamentals that run contrary to how the game itself is designed is considered good game design when it comes to healers in FFXIV.

The thing that's so infuriating to me is they made PVP Sage. They know how to make infinitely more fun with the same exact buttons we have now: Far more frequent uses of Eukrasian Dosis and Phlegma, Pnuema is actually an attack and a satisfying burst of damage and mitigation, Toxikon isn't a horrid joke... That's a pretty damn decent starting point if that were PVE Sage.

[Maltothoris]

Man it really is hilarious to think that the first iteration of plenary was really bad and that honestly should of been a clue that they can be really damn clueless about how healers are play in actual content.

[Aravell]

Man it really is hilarious to think that the first iteration of plenary was really bad and that honestly should of been a clue that they can be really damn clueless about how healers are play in actual content.

The first iteration of Plenary was actually nice to have for exactly one mechanic, Neverwhere in O4S P2. It's really funny that they created a job ability that's usable for exactly one mechanic in the entire game at the time.