Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[TaleraRistain]

Just for the record even though I switched sides with the argument and I'm all for either a complete healer design rework or just add or change a couple of skills to focus more on a dps rotation.

Where the hell are people getting from that you can go through the entire dungeon and trial content without using most of your healer toolkits constantly? Maybe its because Im just very casual and Im not the best healer around but I still struggle getting dps in whenever tanks go wall to wall in mobs pulls where I mostly focus more on healing than dpsing the mobs, or at least I try to get some dps in but I get interrupted whenever I see that tank HP bar get dangerously low, so I wind up pressing more buttons, instead of 1,1,1,1,1. Same thing goes with tanking, I weave in my mitigations and cooldowns when possible during big mob pulls and bosses. The gameplay is never boring to me because of that. During boss encounters at least there's a bit more leeway for less heals, although I still wind up going through my toolkit when allowed anyway and the most I wind up spamming my dot and single damage spell is around 15-20 seconds before I use other my other skills to make sure the party is up and running smoothly.

Again Im not gonna argue against adding more dps buttons but Im just generally confused how everyone here seems to be complete Gigachads in their class that they spend more time dpsing than pressing their heal buttons in most general content. Maybe its just me.

It depends on the level you may be synced down to (so what skills are available) and the performance of your party. In Expert with my full kit with a tank who is on point with mitigation? Pop an Asylum down or put a Regen on them and they barely dip so I'm dpsing most of the fight. I'm also not a healer who thinks the last HP is the most important one. I don't heal every bit of health, but my general rule of thumb with randoms is don't let anyone go below about 50%. Since I as a WHM have Asylum, lilies, Tetra, Bene, and Assize plus things like Plenary and Divine Benison, even if the tank dips on health during a big pull I can get them right back up and do more Holy spam, which also helps the first 3 times with the stun so I space that out at first to gain maximum effect. At lower levels, Medica II and Cure II will need to come out more, depending on what's available.

I definitely heal more if my party has weak spots. That's my favorite type of group, since I feel that I have a reason for being there. I'm the glue holding those parties together. I used to be that back in EverQuest as an enchanter. That's my favorite spot in the party and the reason I play the healer role here. But with recent changes to other roles and their self-sustain, they are giving us less and less to heal unless we're in those weaker party situations.

[IDontPetLalas]

But the problem stems from, how often do we need to keep things under control or get them back under control? Fights can be done completely without us now and not just if we die when it's nearly dead. Groups can't leave the tank out. Groups can't leave the dps out. But groups can leave the healer out.

I don't agree with many that what we need is more dps skills but we need *something* to make it so groups can't leave an entire role behind.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. i for what could find encounters that require (for example) healers to cleanse a debuff from everyone or the whole alliance wipes. However, in the games where those types of mechanics were introduced, i had more than our pitiful esuna- i actually had a group -wide debuff (usually on a longish CD) - so there's some thought that would have to put into our skills. Those types of mechanics definitely keep things spicy.

However, that would not reply at all to the MSQ, OW, or any other solo activities, so yes, I darn well do want some extra DPS skills so I don't have to replace my "1" key. Hell, even in group encounters , there could be some thought into adding a DPS skill that is tied into healing, or one that is an extra AOE.

[Minarisweet]

After analyzing the timestamp in question, I kind of realize that yoship is only ever thinking about savage and only savage whenever he answers one of these... notice how he didn't mention any casual content at all.
The real issue with healers is that they have a very weird design for anything that isn't savage but they are in fact engaging during savage prog... so he might be thinking its just a lot of elitists wanting a harder game when we just want healers to feel more fun and organic in all content.

[Fiorinol]

I swapped off healers this expansion. I'm tired of how healers play in Savage, how they tend to get gear last because statics funnel gear to dps, and how playing healer almost guarantees you have to play healer next tier because that's what you have experience on.

Problem is, someone needs to play healer. The raid groups I know had issues recruiting healers this tier and often had to settle on healers that held progression back.

[Mimilu]

Forget savage and ultimate, my friends and I don't even run healers in expert. A WAR is all you need.

I did this today with three of my FC-mates: me as a DNC, a WAR, a MNK, and a SAM.
Other then having to wait a few extra seconds for the WAR's cooldowns before the second pulls in-between bosses, we were good. >w>

[IdowhatIwant]

Their philosophy regarding healers is why people don't like playing it outside of high end duties. Hell, even in the latter, once you get past the prog stage where you were picking up mistakes left and right and head to farm stage where you end up dpsing more than healing, you start feeling underwhelmed again. Their refusal to try to meet even one-quarter of the way with healing and dpsing tools is why the role becomes the most unappealing of them all.

You know things get really ironic when people avoid the role not because it's a responsibility like they usually are in other mmos but because it's boring.

Sadly there philosophy is actually that healers should be healing and there dps is negligible. Yet the content does not reflect this philosophy now. Healers or required to dps in savage content +. Tanks can now heal themselves through an entire dungeon with no need for a healer. IMO they are slowly killing there game by not taking the same level of risks as they used to. Hell with them adding trust to the MSQ from 1 - 90 there will be no need for parties anymore this will just become a single player subscription based game. They are about to kill the game TBH.

[Connor]

What I don’t get is why they won’t give us ways to support the party outside of dps if they’re that against it.

Just a random idea but like a small % damage buff and a damage reduction ability on the gcd to upkeep would be fun to me.
Can’t they just slap a small heal potency (200-300?) if they’re that worried about people refusing/struggling to heal the minute they get the chance to do something else.

Which also I find ironic because like as not people still find healing challenging even now. And the game’s design actively encourages them to struggle because healers still need to dps . Because, again, we have no other way to contribute the party outside of pure healing (and oGCDs which don’t really add much since they don’t affect single-button spamming). And as we’ve desperately been trying to tell the developers, that pure healing really isn’t something that people need healers for anymore lol.

So the developers are saying that healers should go into ultimate if they want to use their healing, because forcing healers to use their healing in normal content is too stressful, but forcing healers to maximise their dps to the utmost degree in normal content because they literally do not bring anything to the party (outside of ultimates, apparently) is totally acceptable and not stressful?

It doesn’t make any sense

[IdowhatIwant]

What I don’t get is why they won’t give us ways to support the party outside of dps if they’re that against it.

Just a random idea but like a small % damage buff and a damage reduction ability on the gcd to upkeep would be fun to me.
Can’t they just slap a small heal potency (200-300?) if they’re that worried about people refusing/struggling to heal the minute they get the chance to do something else.

Which also I find ironic because like as not people still find healing challenging even now. And the game’s design actively encourages them to struggle because healers still need to dps . Because, again, we have no other way to contribute the party outside of pure healing (and oGCDs which don’t really add much since they don’t affect single-button spamming). And as we’ve desperately been trying to tell the developers, that pure healing really isn’t something that people need healers for anymore lol.

So the developers are saying that healers should go into ultimate if they want to use their healing, because forcing healers to use their healing in normal content is too stressful, but forcing healers to maximise their dps to the utmost degree in normal content because they literally do not bring anything to the party (outside of ultimates, apparently) is totally acceptable and not stressful?

It doesn’t make any sense

Content in the past used to reflect abilities healers had. I think it was Imdagud that the preys had to be shielded with either an adlo or a stone skin in order to survive. So there used to be actual mechanics for healers to deal with by using there kit. What we have now is typically healer moves here or this happens on the healer so stack on them.

[neosfaxim]

What you said is a 100% true

[Xaruko_Nexume]

After finishing the thread, people are saying "We dont want harder, we want more DPS buttons as healers."

1. No. You signed up to heal. SO heal. ANY dps you can do at that point is just a bonus. If you want more in depth DPS, then pick a job with a red icon.
2. Wanting more DPS buttons is literally the same as harder.