Yoshi-P: "If you want more engaging content, go play Ultimate"

[Nethereal]

Point me in the direction of a good MMORPG with great healing and I'll be gone.

Tera has the best action oriented combat in the entire mmorpg industry and the most classic take on the trinity system.

The only issues healers ever had on that game is that one(Priest) was a lot better than the other(Mystic) for awhile due to the nature of the other's kit, this was fixed in later patches.

Tera overall is a trash game I don't recommend anyone play but I do recommend you play a healer on that game until max level and just do dailies and see what could've been.

There were literal fights where you would heal yourself to draw aggro of mobs and just kite them in circles while your party dpsed(Manya's Core).

[BrokentoothMarch]

Tera has the best action oriented combat in the entire mmorpg industry and the most classic take on the trinity system.

The only issues healers ever had on that game is that one(Priest) was a lot better than the other(Mystic) for awhile due to the nature of the other's kit, this was fixed in later patches.

Tera overall is a trash game I don't recommend anyone play but I do recommend you play a healer on that game until max level and just do dailies and see what could've been.

There were literal fights where you would heal yourself to draw aggro of mobs and just kite them in circles while your party dpsed(Manya's Core).

That's really the sad reality, isn't it? Just about any MMO does the whole MMO thing better than FFXIV when it comes to combat and, depending on what they mean by "focusing on solo experience", they could gimp themselves to the point where they're completely consumed by everything else, effectively staying at the top only by the fervent fanboyism and nothing else.

Kind of like a certain other game that made everyone go wow.

[BrokentoothMarch]

I'd actually like to know the reason why they think 1-1-1-1 is because anything more would constitute button bloat. Do these developers enjoy pissing off their players this much? I'd suggest taking your money elsewhere if this is not adressed next expansion.

Honestly:. I will. Call it bluff, but I'm getting weary at the devs increasingly flippant attitude. I never developed this weird attachment to Yoshi like many others have, but even I agree there was a time I wouldn't dream of him telling a chunk of the community to screw off, to ignore housing to this flagrant degree, and to essentially laugh at the players/his own poor work while presenting it.

This is a clear decay and its irrefutable. I've alrrady been playing GW2 on my off time and if this keeps going, it's likely to become my main. At least when they say it's okay to play other games, they mean it.

Also Hrothgar's work

[BrokentoothMarch]

Point me in the direction of a good MMORPG with great healing and I'll be gone.

Again, I'll shill GW2. Hell, there's even a tank/healer hybrid where you juggle mitigation and healing or another that has you focus on healing and, when there's no healing, plenty of buff manipulations because the devs aren't as allergic to status effects as these are.

Admittedly, healers are more 'support' and labeled as such rather than pure healers, so still not friendly to those who think it should go the way of sylphies.

WoW is... I'm cautiously optimistic. When the purchase by MSoft goes through, it might get better? The company has expressed interest in purging much of the studio and replace it to clean it of it's previous issues. Rumors of a firing list is even circulating. So maybe that down the road?

[ASkellington]

Again, I'll shill GW2. Hell, there's even a tank/healer hybrid where you juggle mitigation and healing or another that has you focus on healing and, when there's no healing, plenty of buff manipulations because the devs aren't as allergic to status effects as these are.

Admittedly, healers are more 'support' and labeled as such rather than pure healers, so still not friendly to those who think it should go the way of sylphies.

WoW is... I'm cautiously optimistic. When the purchase by MSoft goes through, it might get better? The company has expressed interest in purging much of the studio and replace it to clean it of it's previous issues. Rumors of a firing list is even circulating. So maybe that down the road?

GW2 I've tried and... while I do like it I also don't and have issues with it.

I'll think about giving it a try again, but I really hate that they refuse to support the playstyle I want to go for.

And frankly from what I've seen, its PvP is better than its PvE.

WoW... nah. They've burned that bridge when they gutted my Shamrock. I miss my totems and water shield too much to come back. Thanks for the suggestions though! I'll keep on the lookout.

[KurohNeko]

This is effectively what the lead designer of this game told Healers in the latest live letter.

Consider if he had said that about your role (tank / dps) for a second and how you would feel.

Forget the leveling experience, it doesn't matter.

Forget dungeons up to 90, they don't matter.

Forget normal raids, EX's, and Savage, they don't matter.

If you want your job to be engaging, play Ultimate, the hardest content in the game that only a few percentage of actual players do.

Engagement shouldn't be either 0% or 100%. It shouldn't be either braindead easy in 95% of content or pull your hair out in the hardest thing the game offers.

Edit:

Yoshi-P's statement is about as tone deaf as the Lead Designer of WoW flat out saying they didn't want players playing a certain DPS spec. (Language warning)

Background: Instead of properly balancing a certain DPS spec, the WoW devs nuked it to the ground so people would play other things.

Sound familiar?

Healing in FF14 is quite broken. "We don't want pure healers like other MMO's for healers to do DPS" ok what are the DPS options? "Mash two buttons again and again." "More DPS buttons? You're a healer." Ok what are the healing options? "Bunch of buttons but pretty pointless when every class can pretty much heal itself."

Basically healers are worthless outside of savage and ultimate.

[BingleNingle]

I don't think I said one has to be a dumpstercan, I said we can't pretend there aren't players who are currently challenged or don't want more and that it's a devs job to balance that out with something that's still challenging for those who choose it, along with other jobs that are less straightforward.

If you're opposed to having something for people who aren't or don't desire to be at your level then you are exactly the complaining elitist people are raving about, midcore or not. It isn't just a game for us, and the problem now is that it isn't really a game for us even though it easily could be without gatekeeping across the board one way or another.

And honestly I think the most immediate problem is tanks. One of them does our job for us and the other just got the ability to do much the same. That's a design problem. Yes our gameplay is still boring with that fixed, but I don't think "casuals" are our enemy and we spend too much time being angry at some notion that things aren't challenging enough and end up conflating two separate, albeit connected problems.

Also can we stop implying people who don't want to do what we want to do are somehow deficient? I know these forums are only here for us to insult each other but it detracts from our argument and I don't really like belittling people I'm playing a game with unless they actively hurt me.

[Semirhage]

I don't think I said one has to be a dumpstercan, I said we can't pretend there aren't players who are currently challenged or don't want more and that it's a devs job to balance that out with something that's still challenging for those who choose it, along with other jobs that are less straightforward.

You didn't, but that's not something I was directing at you. Most of my post wasn't directed at you, but at the corpus of opinions I see all too often around WHM. You stick around WHM arguments for a while, and you start to get this...pattern. Yes, yes, WHM should be improved. But not like...*improved* improved. Slow down there, it can't be actually good or anything. Better, but be really careful; hit the brakes! We can't expect Square to make it actually fun or anything, just...a little better maybe.

It nearly always comes alongside a dissertation on why 1111111111111 is horrible, insulting game design, unworthy of being called gameplay at all. It's boring. It's awful. Nobody would want to play that way. And then as part of the dissertation's closing argument, there's always "anyway, here's why this design paradigm I just spent a ton of energy raging about is PERFECT for keeping on [a healer I don't play or care about]".

I'm the evil gatekeeper healer who's sick of the jobs getting dumbed down. There hasn't -been- any meeting halfway. Things get simplified, made even more impossible to fail. And we still have threads on the front page complaining that this game's story content is too hard. Seems like even though we've hit rock bottom with simplification, it's still too hard. I've been calling for raising the skill ceiling. I've even conceded long ago that Square doesn't want to increase healing requirements. Fine. Then give us downtime activities that are commensurate with a human level of brainpower, instead of 121111111111111111. But we can't even do that. Not because the people complaining about it can't do it, but because Square seems to think that its mere existence would be too scary. I'm pretty comfortable belittling people whose opinions have contributed to ruining my fun. WHM has been destroyed to appeal to people who didn't want to play it in the first place. I don't begrudge them that if they didn't ask for it, but I'm going to be direct with anyone who argues for keeping it in its ridiculous present state.

[BingleNingle]

You didn't, but that's not something I was directing at you. Most of my post wasn't directed at you, but at the corpus of opinions I see all too often around WHM. You stick around WHM arguments for a while, and you start to get this...pattern. Yes, yes, WHM should be improved. But not like...*improved* improved. Slow down there, it can't be actually good or anything. Better, but be really careful; hit the brakes! We can't expect Square to make it actually fun or anything, just...a little better maybe.

It nearly always comes alongside a dissertation on why 1111111111111 is horrible, insulting game design, unworthy of being called gameplay at all. It's boring. It's awful. Nobody would want to play that way. And then as part of the dissertation's closing argument, there's always "anyway, here's why this design paradigm I just spent a ton of energy raging about is PERFECT for keeping on [a healer I don't play or care about]".

I'm the evil gatekeeper healer who's sick of the jobs getting dumbed down. There hasn't -been- any meeting halfway. Things get simplified, made even more impossible to fail. And we still have threads on the front page complaining that this game's story content is too hard. Seems like even though we've hit rock bottom with simplification, it's still too hard. I've been calling for raising the skill ceiling. I've even conceded long ago that Square doesn't want to increase healing requirements. Fine. Then give us downtime activities that are commensurate with a human level of brainpower, instead of 121111111111111111. But we can't even do that. Not because the people complaining about it can't do it, but because Square seems to think that its mere existence would be too scary. I'm pretty comfortable belittling people whose opinions have contributed to ruining my fun. WHM has been destroyed to appeal to people who didn't want to play it in the first place. I don't begrudge them that if they didn't ask for it, but I'm going to be direct with anyone who argues for keeping it in its ridiculous present state.

Hey, alright. I get it. You're fed up and I don't honestly blame you. Sorry if I came off as dismissive. I just also see people being kinda mean to people who otherwise don't do anything wrong outside of say "i still find healer complicated." Which clearly you disagree with and frankly I also disagree with. I feel like the most realistic expectation would include some kind of scaling curve but as you've pointed out there just isn't any indication that they even want to TRY a halfway approach or whatever. Just chop it all down. In the end we agree. That's all that matters here.

[Semirhage]

Hey, alright. I get it. You're fed up and I don't honestly blame you. Sorry if I came off as dismissive. I just also see people being kinda mean to people who otherwise don't do anything wrong outside of say "i still find healer complicated." Which clearly you disagree with and frankly I also disagree with. I feel like the most realistic expectation would include some kind of scaling curve but as you've pointed out there just isn't any indication that they even want to TRY a halfway approach or whatever. Just chop it all down. In the end we agree. That's all that matters here.

Don't worry about it, miscommunications happen. I'm a snarling, angry former healer main who despises the direction healer design has taken since Heavensward. I crack that whip every chance I get. The chuckling, dismissive way Square talks about the role makes it even more infuriating.